Help identify a 1911 10MM ?

MattO

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My boss's MIL brought me a 10MM 1911 in case I was interested in buying it, he husband passed away and she is liquidating his gun collection. There are no markings on this gun except a serial number. Can someone point me in a direction so I can find the manufacturer and approx. value?


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Matt
 
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The grips look sort of 'Rock Island' type...but should be swimming in markings. Makes me wonder if it's a built-gun
 
I'm gonna hazard a guess and say it was either custom built by a local gunsmith or the owner put it together himself from parts. Although I would think any gunsmith would want his name on it somewhere. Doesn't the law require a builder's mark of some kind?
I will say that there is something vaguely familar about the way the serial number is marked. But darned if I can remember where I've seen that before. :confused:
Try field stripping it and remove the grips to see if there are any markings hiding where they can't be readily seen.
Otherwise I can only suggest you shoot it and base your offer on its performance. If she won't let you shoot it, I would pass because you have no idea of the gun's quality.
 
Thanks, she brought it to me today, as she knows Tuesday nights are my "Therapy nights" at the range. She even brought me a box of ammo to shoot through it. I'll strip the handles off as well and see if I can see anything.
 
Is that a wide Gold Cup style trigger? If so, it could be a custom gun built on an old AMT Hardballer frame. IIRC they made some of they're guns with the serial numbers inside of a cut out like in your first pic. The Hardballers were all matte finished with laser etched roll markings that could easily have been removed when the frame flats were finished. Also, the thumb safety and slide stop look like AMT pieces that have been polished. All AMT frames and parts were stainless, the frame on that gun has obviously been polished but the color looks like it may have been hard chromed as well. That wouldn't surprise me because early stainless steel autos had problems with galling because the slides and frames were the same hardness, hard chroming them was an easy solution.

This pic gives a good look at the AMT Hardballer frame, safety, and slide stop.
amt.jpg



Actually, the more I look your pics, it looks like the slide has a flat ridge which was also a feature of the AMT Hardballer, but the rear sight looks like a S&W revolver sight, a common 1911 upgrade back in the day. AMT made a longslide 10mm called the Javelina (pic below), I don't recall them coming in a regular 5" slide version so my best guess is that the gun you're looking at is a Javelina that has had the slide and barrel shortened and a bunch of other work done - checkering, sights, trigger, polished frame, hard chrome frame, some kind of coating on the slide, beaver tail, Commander hammer, and who knows what else. Check the bottoms of the mags, they're stainless, if they're original they'll probably say AMT 10mm on the base plate.
64d4f3a2ac4a0f458d15d8e22598c1ae.jpg



Found another Javelina pic that shows the serial number inside of a cut out like the gun in your photo. This gun's serial number also has a "J" prefix, same as the one your looking at. So, al of the evidence I can come up with says it's an AMT Javelina that's had a lot of work done to it.
Value? Whatever you're willing to pay. The last few years these old AMT guns have seen some collector interest but mostly the long slides. Obviously there is nothing original about this gun so the only value would be as a shooter IF it runs reliably, AMTs were notoriously hit and miss. However, it looks like someone went to great lengths to work that gun onto something useable so I'd guess that any reliability and accuracy issue have been addressed. I wouldn't buy it without being able to shoot it. If it works well I'd offer something in the $500 range, it would certainly be worth that as a shooter, but without know any of the history or who did the work there really isn't anything else to add value to it. If I knew it ran and shot well, I'd give $500 for it, not much, if any, more.

7c9650b135f4fdf2b0cd5102ffd42820.jpg



Oh yeah, the work that was done on it was probably done a while ago, nobody really messes with those old AMTs anymore. Too many newer, less issue prone guns out there to build on nowadays.
 
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With the myriad of finishes this looks like a parts gun. Doesn't mean it's a bad gun, just won't have much value unless it was put together by a well known gunsmith. Looks like someone had a lot of fun with it at the range though. If it really is a parts gun, I would want to shoot it first...the difference between $500 and say $750.
 
One of the mags is simply marked 10MM. The other two say Kimber on them. But I am pretty certain this isn't a Kimber gun.
 
I slipped the grips off. Not a single marking underneath. Eagle brand grips made in India is stamped on the back of wood grips.
 
As you can see, I added a couple of edits to my second post. How much is she asking for the gun?
 
She asked me to shoot it, see what I thought and give her a price I was willing to pay. She says she is certain he paid $550 for it new. He kept meticulous notes on his gun collection Which is mostly rifles and shotguns.
 
Is that a wide Gold Cup style trigger? If so, it could be a custom gun built on an old AMT Hardballer frame...

May have something there.

The fit of the magazine release in the frame (as seen from the RH side of the gun) is not what I expect from a higher quality 1911. Sight does NOT appear to be an S&W revolver sight, but it can't be seen very well. The checkering and fit of the beavertail look to be OK.

If the gun functions properly, value is really up to you. Without manufacturer's markings, it could be illegal in some states. Without knowing the quality of the component parts...

I would not put too much money in it, even if it turns out to be a good shooter. It's always a touchy situation when dealing with a widow. Good luck. :(
 
According to Genitron, the Javelina's MSRP was $676, so an original purchase price of $550 if he bought it new isn't unrealistic. Obviously there was a lot of work done to the gun after the fact, but neither the price the owner paid nor the amount of work done to it really play into the current value. Certainly you couldn't replicate the gun for $500 today but given the available options who would choose to build up a 10mm AMT today? That being said, vintage customs are always cool and neat and fun, if they work, and their value is what the buyer is willing to pay. Just be aware that it's easy to get into a gun like this for too much money and never be able to get it back out of it.

Also, M29since14 might be right, the Genitron page said it's a Millett rear sight and they look very similar to S&W revolver sights.
 
If she is sure it was 5 1/2 new, then 4 bills would be a reasonable offer today as a *used* piece.

I can't see how you'd be hurt @ 4, unless it does not function atall.

The proof will be in the pudding @ the range. :)

I like it!
 
Thank you all for your help. I will post tonight after my visit to the range about how it shoots. I had planned to take my new .357 for it's second trip in, and probably will run some rounds through it as well. But now this 10MM will be my stress reliever.
 
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