Help Identifying a Smith & Wesson Revolver with “Winchester OTO” Marking – Possible M

[LookingForAnswers]

Help Identifying a Smith & Wesson Revolver with “Winchester OTO” Marking – Possible M

Hello everyone,

I am looking for help identifying a revolver that has been in my family for generations, and I would love to learn more about its origins, markings, and historical context. The revolver has a “Winchester OTO” marking on the barrel, and I suspect it might be a Smith & Wesson Military & Police model chambered in .32-20 Winchester. However, I am unsure if Winchester ever officially produced revolvers, and I would like to confirm its authenticity.

Key Details & Serial Numbers
Barrel Marking: "Winchester OTO"
Serial Number on Grip: 32520
Serial Number on Yoke (visible when barrel is opened): 28560
Revolver Type: Appears to be a top-break double-action revolver.
Grip Marking: Has a visible Smith & Wesson-style seal.
Condition: Aged but intact, with original wooden grips.
Family Legend – A Pancho Villa Story
This revolver has an interesting family story attached to it. According to my family, during the Mexican Revolution (1910-1920), my great-great-grandfather was working on the train tracks when he had an encounter with a soldier from Pancho Villa’s army. The soldier bullied him, and when Villa saw what was happening, he asked my ancestor:

“Why don’t you defend yourself?”

To which he responded:

“Because he has a gun.”

At that moment, Pancho Villa is said to have handed him this very revolver, saying:

“Here you go, now you have one too.”

The revolver has remained in our family ever since. I would love to confirm if this dates back to the Mexican Revolution era, and if there is any possibility it could have been part of firearms circulating in Villa’s army.

Questions for the Experts Here

• Is this definitely a Smith & Wesson revolver, or did Winchester ever produce revolvers like this?
• What does "Winchester OTO" mean? Was this a special contract marking, a replacement barrel, or something else?
• Based on the serial numbers (32520 & 28560), can I determine an approximate production year?
• Would this type of revolver have been commonly used in Mexico during the Revolution?
• Any advice on verifying or tracing this revolver’s provenance?
• Photos Attached

(Attach all the images of the markings, serial numbers, and full revolver)

 

[series guy]

It’s not Winchester OTO it’s Winchester CTG. The CTG stands for cartridge which is the 32-20 round.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! It appears to be a .32/20 (Winchester) Military & Police revolver from the 1910 decade.

A letter of authenticity from the S & W Historical Foundation will tell you its ship/sales date and destination, which may give insight as to how it might have made it south of the border.

 

[JP@AK]

Hi LookingForAnswers

Welcome to the S&W Forum.

Your .32-20 Hand Ejector probably left the factory in 1907. I show four of them with nearby serial numbers that shipped that year. BTW the number on the butt is the serial number (32520). The number in the yoke area is a parts tracking number used during assembly, not a serial number.

32 Winchester CTG was used on these revolvers from about 1900 until about 1913. After that, the barrel was marked as 32 W.C.F. CTG for about the next 10 years.

Yes, it was made by Smith & Wesson, not Winchester. It has a solid frame and is not a top-break revolver. S&W never chambered any top-break guns for that Winchester cartridge.

I'm afraid it likely will not be possible to verify the Pancho Villa story. It is, however, a great story!

 

[Hawg Rider]

Welcome to the Forum! As you can see, this is the place for answers about anything S&W and our Forum members are always willing to share their extensive knowledge. Others have already identified and dated your family heirloom revolver, and the s/n is the one stamped on the bottom of the grip frame (32520). It appears that your revolver is wearing its original checked walnut stocks, and although worn, they are in pretty good condition. As JP@AK mentioned, your revolver is known as a .32 Hand Ejector because the cylinder swings out to the left to load/unload cartridges. It's definitely not a top break revolver. The .32 Winchester CTG is also known as .32-20 CTG, and they are still available from several ammo manufacturers. .32-20 can sometimes be difficult to find, but if you can locate some Cowboy Action loads online, they are safe to shoot in your revolver. You may want to take it to your local gun shop for a check up, just to be sure it's safe to shoot. If the family provenance is true, you have a very interesting revolver. There were literally millions of M&P revolvers manufactured by S&W over many decades (.38 and .32), so it's entirely possible that quite a few made it to Mexico. Enjoy!

 

[cmdrcody]

That the strangest looking top break I’ve ever seen[emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[alwslate]

looks like a Spanish copy of a S&W possibly. Seems like many were made in .32-20.

 

[glowe]

It is absolutely a Smith & Wesson Model 1905, 1st Change made from 1906 to around 1908. Only about 11,000 of this model made. Your serial number suggests it was shipped in 1907. Colt and S&W made guns in this caliber because of its success with Winchester leverguns made in the same caliber. Very popular caliber for rifles around the early 1900s, so makes sense to offer handguns in the same caliber so the owner had both a rifle and revolver in the same 32 Winchester.

 

[JP@AK]

because of its success with Winchester Model 1894 made in the same caliber. Very popular caliber for rifles around the early 1900s

Not to mention the Winchester Model 1885. More Model 1885s were chambered for the .32 W.C.F. than for any other cartridge.

 

[Magneto]

It was the Winchester 1873 and 1892 lever actions that were chambered in 32 WCF, as well as the 1885 single shot, not the 1894.

Steve ��

 

[oneeyedpete]

Pancho Villa's favorite pistol was a Colt Bisley SAA with mother of pearl grips. However, he no doubt used many handguns throughout his career. Here is a link where the Colt is discussed and, if you look at the fourth picture from the top at Villa on horseback, it does appear that the gun he is carrying in his holster is in fact a S&W M&P. No doubt most of the arms used by the Villistas were captured from the Mexican and American armies during the revolution.

The Guns of Pancho Villa - Frontier Partisans

 

[glowe]

It was the Winchester 1873 and 1892 lever actions that were chambered in 32 WCF, as well as the 1885 single shot, not the 1894.

Thanks, you are right. the Model 1894 had 30 Winchester and 32 Winchester Special, but not 32 Winchester.

 

[hkcavalier]

Well, at least the OP knows the story is possible, if not provable without a working time machine. Many "granddad's ol' gun" stories on here where the gun in question is too new e.g. brought back a model number marked gun from serving in WWII.

 

[series guy]

It is ironic that the serial number is 32/20 separated by a 5.

 

[BC38]

looks like a Spanish copy of a S&W possibly. Seems like many were made in .32-20.

Just curious but what are you seeing that makes you think it may be a S&W copy - rather than a genuine S&W?

The picture of the right side isn't very high-resolution, but when I zoom in on it the S&W cartouche looks right to me - as do all the other features of the revolver.

I'm still learning, so more info on how to spot fakes is always appreciated.

Anyways, if it is indeed a S&W the serial number certainly places it in the right time frame for having been made just before the Mexican Revolution.

Cool old gun, even if the Poncho Villa provenance can't be documented!

 

[alwslate]

Odd serial number. Cartouche looks odd, like maybe altered or overstamped. The word Winchester on the barrel with the odd mis spelling of the CTG. A pic of the gun without the grips might be revealing. Take a close look at the 3 of the 32 Winchester designation on the barrel. Did S&W roll mark the .32-20 ctg revolvers 32 Winchester? Lots of odd features. I'm no expert but I am skeptical about this revolver. Serial numbers don't match on the butt and crane. Lettering not centered on the barrel. Winchester is misspelled with the same o as ctg. Crooked T on the word Winchester. Letters are all the same size but spacing is a bit uneven. I'll put my money on it being a Spanish copy.

 

[JP@AK]

Odd serial number.

What's odd about it?

Take a close look at the 3 of the 32 Winchester designation on the barrel.

I don't see anything strange about the 3.

Did S&W roll mark the .32-20 ctg revolvers 32 Winchester?

Yes, until about 1913.

Lettering not centered on the barrel.

The cartridge designation on the 32 Winchester was always at that location on these revolvers.

Serial numbers don't match on the butt and crane.

S&W did not put the serial number behind the yoke in those years. The number there is an "assembly" number, not the serial number.

This is a S&W revolver chambered for the .32-20.

 

[Model19man]

Looks normal to me. Pretty bad condition. The story and family history are great so it would stay in the family if it were mine.

 

[alwslate]

What's odd about it?


I don't see anything strange about the 3.


Yes, until about 1913.


The cartridge designation on the 32 Winchester was always at that location on these revolvers.


S&W did not put the serial number behind the yoke in those years. The number there is an "assembly" number, not the serial number.

This is a S&W revolver chambered for the .32-20.

So you're saying that it was common for S&W to spell Winchester winohester? No capital W? crooked cross bar on their ts?

 

[alwslate]

Also you're saying it is "A S&W Revolver". Strange but I don't see anywhere on the gun in the pics provided that it actually says "Smith & Wesson". Do you?