Help model 60 locking up

[Quailman84]

I recently acquired a used 60-15 and it is frequently locking up when shooting. Nothing will move, hammer, trigger, cylinder latch, nothing. Hammer is down and trigger is forward when this happens. I can get it unlocked by working the cylinder latch forward and back but it takes some effort. It leads me to believe the bolt is getting stuck part way forward when shooting which would keep the hammer from moving back while still keeping the cylinder from opening. I've disassembled everything and can't find anything amiss. No broken springs, burrs, chips, etc. and almost no wear on any parts.

Any ideas? What else to check? Polish all those internal parts? I would prefer to fix it myself if possible. Thanks for any help.

 

[photoman]

I had a 686 Plus that was acting the same way and, of all things, it was the cylinder stop. It was too narrow, permitting the cylinder to move and jam up the gun. Or something like that. The factory fixed it under warranty.

 

[robertrwalsh]

First suspect is that the ejector rod is unscrewing and is now too long. See if it needs to be tightened. Remember it has a reverse thread. It is possible the cylinder latch is stuck in a partly forward position. Crud in the works or a burr might explain that. Diagnose it one step at a time. Open and dismount the cylinder. Check and see if the ejector rod operates freely. See if it is tight. Check for length. Push it down against a hard, flat surface with the ratchet side down. The center pin should just come up flush with the other end of the rod. At this point the cylinder latch should be able to operate freely and if you hold the latch to the rear you should be able to cycle the weapon normally without the cylinder in place. Take off the side plate and see what the inside looks like. If you really want to do this (it isn't THAT hard if you are somewhat mechanical) get yourself some necessary hand tools and one of the manuals by Kuhnhausen or another decent manual and have at it.

 

[Quailman84]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have already had it apart and inspected everything. There are no burrs, broken parts, etc.

I just checked the ejector rod and it is tight. The center pin out at the end of the rod does come flush with the ejector rod when pushing it flush from the ratchet side. If the latch is held to the rear (with cylinder open or removed) the action operates properly..

 

[armorer951]

You might also look at the back side of the sideplate for contact marks. Interior parts can sometimes be in contact with the sideplate and cause lockups and rough cycling. (rear leg of the bolt, etc)

Also, check to verify that the mainspring and rebound slide spring are full length OEM springs. Installation of aftermarket springs (by a previous owner) can lead to action issues, including the action (trigger) not resetting properly.

 

[Quailman84]

Just finished completely disassembling and cleaning the gun and taking a few pictures. The side plate looks fine inside, but I did find what appears to be some excessive loctite that I had to clean up.

While partially assembled, no cylinder latch, no bolt... I just put the cylinder assembly and yoke in the frame. I used a small punch to push the cylinder pin forward and it feels like it is binding in the hole through the frame. It looks like this hole is possibly peened over a bit and the cylinder pin is sticking in it and possibly not going through as far as it should. The attached picture shows a ring of wear around the hole.

Being a used gun I have no idea what kind of abuse it's seen. I found it has 0.006" end play between the yoke and frame (picture) and 0.005" or 0.006" end shake. I think I have a worn out gun.

 

[robertrwalsh]

That groove in the recoil shield looks more like a trough and you definitely have an issue with the center pin recess. Also, as you note, the fit of the yoke looks a bit off. More than a bit.

 

[Protocall_Design]

If the front sideplate screw that holds the yoke in is out or not screwed in all the way, that could be the cause of the endshake and yoke spacing. If the screw is all the way in, the spring loaded plunger could be stuck in or missing.

It looks like there may be a burr on the center pin hole. That could cause the other problems. If the center pin doesn't push the bolt all the way back, the hammer can't cock.

 

[ken158]

If you had your location in your profile perhaps one of the many armorers here are close to you and would take a look at it. I’m thinking of several issues that could cause this but “polishing all those internal parts” is certainly not one of them…

 

[Quailman84]

Thank you all for the helpful responses. The yoke screw is tight and the spring/plunger in the end seems ok. I'm comfortable swapping parts and adding shims, but I think this may require more than that to repair.

I'm located in north central Ohio about half way between Toledo and Columbus if anyone knows a good gunsmith in the area.

 

[Rodfac]

I bought a new M-63 two years ago that did the same thing. Complete lockup. In addition the cylinder/forcing cone gap varied from ~0.003" to 0.12" and would produce lead spitting that would hit me in the face. A call to S&W service got me a FEDEX shipping label and the gun was with the service dept. for ~2 months.

I came back with a new cylinder, barrel, crane, ejector assembly and a superb action job. Based on my interaction with the service people there, on this and two other Smiths, I'd suggest calling them for warranty work. Hope you get it sorted out. Rod
Here's the gun with an older set of Combat stocks installed.

 

[__steve__]

I bought a new M-63 two years ago that did the same thing. Complete lockup. In addition the cylinder/forcing cone gap varied from ~0.003" to 0.12" and would produce lead spitting that would hit me in the face. A call to S&W service got me a FEDEX shipping label and the gun was with the service dept. for ~2 months.

I came back with a new cylinder, barrel, crane, ejector assembly and a superb action job. Based on my interaction with the service people there, on this and two other Smiths, I'd suggest calling them for warranty work. Hope you get it sorted out. Rod
Here's the gun with an older set of Combat stocks installed.

I agree. They’ll probably do something like repair yoke, replace bolt/spring assy, replace pin/spring assy, and 90% chance it will be flawless after.

 

[Dvus]

Remove the ejector rod and chuck it in a drill to check for straightness. My 66 locked completely one time and the ejector rod was the culprit. It looked fine rolling it across a flat surface, but the drill showed the true issue.

 

[Quailman84]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think since there are more issues than just the locking up (excessive end shake, yoke play) I'm going to send it back to Smith for repair.

 

[Quailman84]

Update

Got it back from S&W today and put just 10 rounds of 38 +P through it with no issues. They replaced the cylinder and barrel (did not expect either) and repaired the bolt & yoke. The bolt appears new to me. Everything feels tight and smooth. Will test with some 357s soon and see how it does, but all seems good so far.

 

[kaaskop49]

Got it back from S&W today and put just 10 rounds of 38 +P through it with no issues. They replaced the cylinder and barrel (did not expect either) and repaired the bolt & yoke. The bolt appears new to me. Everything feels tight and smooth. Will test with some 357s soon and see how it does, but all seems good so far.

Glad to hear it! As Yogi would say, "You done splendid."

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103