help with ammunition

[hbschwartz]

i am a newbie. i have a s&w 340 .357. i am interested only in self-defense and personal carry, not target shooting. i have used and can handle the gold dot 135 gr. short barrel ammunition in .38 +p and i can also handle the .357 ammo, but my follow up shots are accurate but not as fast as the +p.
here are my questions:

1. does .357 ammunition provide that much more 'stopping power' than .38 +p?
2. can using .357 ammo in my j-frame 340 crack the frame? i have been told this is a possibility?
3. what has the best 'stopping power' ammo for this 2" snubby? is the gold dot the best ammo?

thanks.

 

[Ed45]

If there was a way to accurately measure "stopping power", sure the more powerful round will win the comparison. However, with that extra power comes extra penetration of interior (and exterior) building walls, excess recoil which you yourself said compromises your follow-up shots and deafening (literally) report in enclosed spaces. Street studies of effectiveness vs caliber exist and are frequently cited. I have not consulted those, you may wish to but my "357 compatible" J frames are loaded with +P, not the magnum round. Best of luck. Ed

 

[hbschwartz]

thanks for the information

i have decided that the extra obstacles associated with .357 short barrel ammunition do not out weigh the advantages of .38 short barrel +p. shot placement, after all, is the most critical factor, especially under stress. thanks.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO accuracy and a quick follow up shot if necessary are more important than the little extra velocity you can get from .357 Magnum ammo. I would stick with the .38 Special +P ammo if you can shoot it well. Good shot placement will make up for any small velocity differences. (IMO of course)

 

[hbschwartz]

thanks again. i agree after many searches on the internet and talking with knowledgeable individuals. not to mention, that even with short barrel ammo, the flash may be too much in a stress situation. from what i have read, the .38 +p gold dot 135 grain ammo is the best for this 2" gun. plenty of stopping power, and not very much sacrificed in terms of energy, velocity, etc. i don't want to get too caught up with statistics, but rather want the best round for personal defense.

 

[Mphstiger1981]

thanks again. i agree after many searches on the internet and talking with knowledgeable individuals. not to mention, that even with short barrel ammo, the flash may be too much in a stress situation. from what i have read, the .38 +p gold dot 135 grain ammo is the best for this 2" gun. plenty of stopping power, and not very much sacrificed in terms of energy, velocity, etc. i don't want to get too caught up with statistics, but rather want the best round for personal defense.

I'm sure if you've done your research, which is sounds like you have, you are aware that Speer also makes the Gold Dot 135 grain +P round in a .357 magnum, and like the .38 +P round, it was created especially for the short barrel guns. If I was in your position, I'd invest in a box of both and shoot both side by side to compare.

If you were to happen to do this, I for one would be interested in a follow up post comparing the two rounds, and what you decided to do based on your experience.

 

[hbschwartz]

ammo

i am going to be shooting the 135 grain short barrel .38 +p and .357 tomorrow. i will try and post my impressions.

 

[coach22]

My 340 PD is loaded with Buffalo Bore 125 grain 38 +P's.
A close second choice is Corbon DPX 110 grain +P's.
I, like others, believe that the ability to make fast follow up shots,
is more important than the extra power of a 357.
Unlike the super heroes of TV and movies,
people like us, or those who'll admit it, sometimes miss.
At the distance we civilians will shoot to protect ourselves,
I am comfortable with the power of the two 38's I mentioned.

 

[hbschwartz]

i agree with the ability to make fast follow up shots as an important element, however, assuming this can be done with the .357 ammunition as well as the .38 +p, do you believe there is a major difference in the two bullets for 'stopping power'.

 

[papajohn428]

I worry a lot more about shot placement than anything as hard to quantify as "Stopping Power". IMHO, there is no such thing, because there are too many things to factor in. The mental state of your adversary is primary among them.....if you shoot him with your wonder bullet and he is not impressed, you have more shooting to do until he is. Fast follow-up shots trump anything as ethereal as "Stopping Power".

I carry the 135 grain Gold Dot on duty because it's scary-accurate in my revolvers, does what it's supposed to, and holds together well. I've tested it in numerous calibers in duxseal, wetpack and water, and it always comes out looking like the ad copy.

 

[thndrchiken]

Unless I'm in the woods hunting, I load 38sp +p in my gp100 for pd. I don't really carry my revolvers often in preference to the the 40 and 45, but my main concern is muzzle flash at night and over penetration. One has to admit that while a pistol is intimidating being able to see the rds in the cylinder of a revolver is downright sobering.

 

[hbschwartz]

i agree with all replies, however, all things being equal, do you think .38 +p are as good as .357 ammo. both of course, gold dot 135 grain short barrel. just trying to figure out if the .357 is that much more powerful than the .38 +p.

 

[off road]

I worked a few years in the medical examiner's office of a very large southwest county (that saw lots of action!), and later taught human anatomy....

For what it's worth, based on my experience dissecting out gunshot wounds, in my M&P340 I load .357 Glaser Silvers anywhere and everywhere that I can!!! This stuff is flat out devastating, and will shred organs like nothing else! If I am in a situation where medium barrier penetration is called for, then I will load Hornady Critical Defense 125 gr .357's (a bonafied shock and awe load, even fired from a short barrel!). But....if you must load .38+P's, you will still be reasonably well armed.

 

[hbschwartz]

which glaser in .357 do you recommend?

 

[off road]

which glaser in .357 do you recommend?

There is Blue (#12 shot) or Silver (#6 shot). They recommend Blue for light clothing, and Silver for when the weather is colder and clothing is thicker. I like Silver for deeper penetration, year round even in the southwest where winter weather is mild. Both loads are 80 gr.

357 Magnum 80gr Glaser | COR®BON/Glaser Self Defense | Dakota Ammo

Most shots made by a civilian at home or on the street, will be unobstructed chest shots, for which the Glasers are perfect. The one exception is when I ride off road, where many of those you encounter are in vehicles, and there I load hollow points.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

i agree with all replies, however, all things being equal, do you think .38 +p are as good as .357 ammo. both of course, gold dot 135 grain short barrel. just trying to figure out if the .357 is that much more powerful than the .38 +p.

From a short barrel the 135gr Gold Dot .38 Special +P ammo is rated at 860 fps and the 135gr Gold Dot .357 Magnum ammo is rated at only 990 fps. (hardly a magnum load at all) Considering that 135gr bullet was specifically designed to reliable expand at right around 800 fps it really doesn't matter which one you use, both will do the same job.

IMO that .357 Magnum ammo was developed to allow those who bought an expensive 12oz .357 Magnum revolver to use ammo that's marked .357 Magnum even though it's just a hot .38 Special round velocity wise.

 

[photoman]

I worry a lot more about shot placement than anything as hard to quantify as "Stopping Power".

I'm in total agreement with papajohn428. Shot placement is the most important variable to consider for J frames. When selecting ammo for a five shot gun, rapid follow up shots should be way down on the list of priorities. Anything we can do to improve shot placement should be the primary focus. When you only have five shots, you better make every one of them count!

 

[K1500]

The remingtion 125gr Golden Saber is a good 'mid range' .357 that really splits the difference between .38 +P's and full throttle 125gr Mags. Kind of seems like it was made for shooting out of a small .357 like a M60.

 

[chief38]

hbschwartz,

I believe you have already answered your own question! If you can not reliably hit what you are aiming for with the .357 and you CAN with the +P .38 Spl, then there is your answer............

I have always believed (my personal opinion - of course) that the .357 Magnum cartridge has no business in a light weight 2" snub nosed Revolver. It is just too violent, too much flash, and most of the benefit of a Magnum round is wasted out of the barrel becasue the tube is too short!

I use a 3" barrel M65 (minimum) when I carry the .357 cartridge. It gives much better velocities, weighs more for better control, and soaks up the recoil a lot better than a J Frame will ever do.

Most of what I have seen with my own eyes is that the guys that buy these light weight J Frame .357 Mag's only shoot them once with magnum loads. They then quickly figure out that the Magnum is too much for the small carry gun and that they can't hit anything with it. They then go to the +P .38 Spl.

Like I said above, if you really intend on carrying a 357 magnum, go with a 3" K Frame - which IMHO is the smallest and lightest Revolver capable of being concealed, shot controlably, and have the benefits of Magnums realized.

Think of it this way................

If you have a 100 foot run of 1 inch copper water pipe, and at the end of the run you step down to one foot of 1/2" copper pipe, the water flow will be no greater than if the entire length of pipe was 1/2", so why waste the larger pipe only to restrict it at the end. Basically what I am getting at is that the .357 out of a 2" tube is pretty much no more than a BB Heavy 38 +P. Why go through all the discomfort, pain, blast, noise, inaccuracy without any significant gain?

Chief38