Help with old revolver

[netcats]

Hi all,

I'm a new member and I need some help.
Smith & Wesson
Top break auto extractor w/ fixed sight.
Barrel is 3 13/16" 38 s&w
Sn.#511469
I don't even know what to call this Mod.#--what?

Thanks much for any help,
Netcats

Sorry to be so slow to return to this. Gun belongs to a friend who has no secure way to store it so it is packed away in my safe.
Don't know much about these old guns.
This one looks just like the drawing in the document about the top break automatic extractor thats in the sticky thread.
Story is, Great grand dad was a doctor and this hand gun went with him in his bag.
Anyway I would like to know the time period when this thing was made,neat old revolver finish is very good and bore is still shines.

Thanks for any help,
Netcats

 

[glowe]

Welcome. Try this link to add more details to your post and add pictures if you can.

To IDENTIFY your Gun >

 

[netcats]

Hi glowe,
Sorry to be so slow.
Thanks for your reply. What other information would be usefull?
I added to my post.
Thanks for any help,
Netcats

 

[glowe]

Thanks for the editting and reply. Top break 38 S&W caliber revolvers were simply called 38 Double Actions. Your serial number indicated the gun would have been a 4th Model, made from 1895 to 1909, with serial numbers from 322,701 to 539,000. That serial number revolver is classified as a modern firearm and subject to all state and Federal regulations. Antique cut-off is serial number 382,022. 38 S&W ammunition is still available and all standard manufactured ammo today is fine for your revolver.

 

[pjpjr]

OP thought you might be interested in this thread;
Interesting Find! being as you are from Fort Smith AR

 

[netcats]

Hey glowe,

Thanks for the information. Would you think the date of manufacture about 1905-1908 ish? We'l never know for sure.
Thanks again.

Netcats

 

[glowe]

Here is the problem with dating 38 Double Action revolvers. With the introduction of the solid frame S&W 38 Special revolver, the sales of top-break guns suffered. The factory did not ship in serial number order, so a large inventory would really mess up any chance of an accurate ship date for these era guns. Could have shipped from 1905 to 1910 or even later.

There are two ways to get an accurate date for this revolver. A member here has the original logs and records for many early S&Ws. Ed (opoefc) and if you can get his attention, you could get a date. The other way is to request a letter of authenticity from the S&W Historical Foundation. Find their section and download a request form at:

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/swhf_letter.pdf

 

[opoefc]

38 DA # 511419 was made Nov. 24, 1906. Ed

 

[Club Gun Fan]

38 DA # 511419 was made Nov. 24, 1906. Ed

Ed How can you tell the exact date it was made? Did they apply the serial number as soon as it came out of the forge? Just asking. Did you ever consider letting the SWHF digitize the information you have? It certainly would help us collectors.

 

[BMur]

Serial numbers applied when hot?

The frame numbers must have been stamped while still "Red" hot since the numbers always seem to be stamped deep on the grip frame. It also makes sense since the dies would last at least 10 times longer since it's much easier to work with metal when red hot(softer).

I'd also suggest that the barrel address was applied by a line stamp when the barrels were red hot also.

The only parts that likely were not stamped red hot was the cylinder and rear of the barrel. Those numbers are normally shallow. Plus machining the chambers requires that the metal be at normal temp or the chamber would turn out different when cool. Same with the bore. So that makes sense.


Murph

 

[netcats]

Hello all,

Wow!
I never thought I'd get an exact date. The level of knowledge here is amazing.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
This forum is a very friendly place thanks for having me as a member.

Have a great day,
Netcats

 

[first-model]

The frame numbers must have been stamped while still "Red" hot since the numbers always seem to be stamped deep on the grip frame. It also makes sense since the dies would last at least 10 times longer since it's much easier to work with metal when red hot(softer).

Not quite.

Metal that is cooled quickly (ie. quenched in a water bath after being heated) typically has higher ductility. This plasticity would make it easier to stamp marks in the metal.

If it was then annealed after the marks were stamped, its ductility would decrease and its hardness would increase. Annealing would also reduce the internal stresses in the metal.

Additionally: stamping red-hot metal would have quickly heated up the stamps and rolls. That could have a detrimental effect on their hardness.

Mike

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Having been in the plant and seeing serial numbers applied, I can tell first hand they are applied while the metal is cold. At least in the 1970's, 80's and into the 2000's.

 

[opoefc]

As Don says, it was likewise in the 40s & 50s. Ed (Regardless of what some others may say about me, I was not there in 1906 - I was away Bear hunting with Teddy Roosevelt )

 

[BMur]

Teddy's shooting skills

I hear Teddy was a good shot. With his glasses on. I also heard that he had them shot off while charging San Juan Hill.


Murph

 

[steelslaver]

Not quite.

Metal that is cooled quickly (ie. quenched in a water bath after being heated) typically has higher ductility. This plasticity would make it easier to stamp marks in the metal.

If it was then annealed after the marks were stamped, its ductility would decrease and its hardness would increase. Annealing would also reduce the internal stresses in the metal.

Additionally: stamping red-hot metal would have quickly heated up the stamps and rolls. That could have a detrimental effect on their hardness.

Mike

Red hot metal, with much carbon content, that is water quenched will become hard and brittle. It will then get softer and more ductile when annealed. Your correct that stamping red hot metal could heat up the dies and cause them to loose their hardness.

 

[crossv]

Well this thread is pretty well off in the weeds already so I don't need to apologize for going totally off, but any excuse to share one of my favorite guns.

So Ed, when you went bear hunting with TR, I am sure you remember the hunting guide, Jake Borah. Jake is seen here with the Wisconsin ex Governor and Senator Robert M. Lafollette and his young son RML, Jr who just at this same time was given a Model 2 Single Shot target pistol with 6 inch barrel as a Christmas pesent. RML, Jr later was a US Senator in his own right for 20 years.

 

[opoefc]

Murph, Teddy told me that he never went up San Juan Hill. That was Fake News! He went up Kettle Hill next to San Juan Hill, as it wasn't as steep and he was getting older. I believe him, as he tweeted me from there and attached a panoramic view of SJ Hill from his phone. Ed

 

[BMur]

Loaded down with iron

Ed,
Must of been that Rusty Colt DA he was carrying from the sunken Battleship Maine that changed his mind. He'd of gone straight at um if he'd had a Schofield!

Something about a .45 that boosts ones confidence.


Murph