Help with S&W New Model 3??? Brought Her Home...

[fredcoyote]

Hello,
I've wanted a 44 or 45 top break Smith quite a while. Either come across crazy $$$ ones for me or wall hangers. This one popped up and I'm having it shipped to my local Bass Pro. I have 3 days after they receive it to decide weather to keep it. Here's a link to the listing on Gunsinternational. I know there is no address on top of barrel which is a concern. I am looking for something I can load up some light loads and shoot. Spoke to them and they say it functions and is tight. Any info/help and/or advise would be much appreciated.

Smith & Wesson ~ Model 3 ~ Unknown for sale

Thank you guys/gals very much,

Fred

 

[iby]

NM3

Looks like a score.
old nickel finish? worn or cleaned but it looks tight.

44 Russian

 

[fredcoyote]

I'm hoping for 44 Russian since I have 1000 brand new cases to load up!

Thanks,

Fred

 

[rct269]

Stuff to look for------------------

These are black powder guns. If/when these guns are used with smokeless loads they will develop (cylinder) end shake/excessive headspace/excessive cylinder to barrel gap/loose barrel latch---some of which is fixable, some not.

Let the buyer beware!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mmaher94087]

There are case stops in the cylinder which would suggest that it is chambered for the .44 Russian caliber. I find it interesting that the barrel rib markings are not present, and the lanyard ring is not Smith & Wesson. However, the restamping of the serial number is what the factory would do if they had put a lanyard ring through the serial number of an existing revolver that was serialized and in inventory. The lanyard ring is reminiscent of those installed on S&W revolvers shipped to Argentina or Cuba. The Argentina shipped revolvers usually have "EJERCITO ARGENTINO" stamped on the bottom strap below the cylinder on the left side. This one might be worth a $100 letter.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

The Argentina shipped revolvers usually have "EJERCITO ARGENTINO" stamped on the bottom strap below the cylinder on the left side. This one might be worth a $100 letter.

The pics I've seen show the "EJERCITO ARGENTINO" stamped on
the underside of the bottom strap in front of the trigger guard.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[fredcoyote]

Glad to hear about the probability of 44 Russian! As for the lanyard ring that's good info.

Still don't understand how all the markings were removed without giving it that rounded refinished look on the pics. It will probably be more apparent in person?

Anybody think it's not a genuine Smith? Copy from one of many countries(Spain, Italy, Mexico, Belgium, UK, Germany, Russia, ...?)

Thanks again,

Fred

 

[Masterpiece]

I find it interesting that the barrel rib markings are not present, and the lanyard ring is not Smith & Wesson.

However, the re-stamping of the serial number is what the factory would do if they had put a lanyard ring through the serial number of an existing revolver that was serialized and in inventory.

fredcoyote,

I believe you'll find...Should you decide to "Letter" your new acquisition...You'll find this Revolver was most likely shipped in one of two large shipments for use in Japan by Takata & Co. in 1887!!

As to the lack of any Barrel Rib Markings...Seeing a good photo of what "Isn't" there would be a big help if you could provide one!!

Also...In regards to the Non-S&W Lanyard Ring...This Lanyard Ring is the type installed by one of the Japanese Arsenals upon arrival in Japan...Hope this helps!!

 

[fredcoyote]

Thank you for that info.

I was figuring Japanese since most of them were sent there and the number falls right in those shipped. I did see they installed lanyard loops at their armory but wasn't sure if that's how they renumbered them.

I'll post a pic as soon as possible of the top of the barrel. Supica had a big collection of these including many copies from all different countries that went to auction. I have not been able to find many pictures but still looking.

Thanks again for the info. Man I can't wait to run a cylinder of 44 Russian(BP) through that old Smith!!! Fingers crossed it's right and tight(enough!).

Fred

 

[rct269]

It's for you to decide how tight is "tight (enough)!".

The specs are .005" to .008" for barrel to cylinder, .006" for headspace, and the latch is either as tight as a bank vault, or it isn't.

I say "specs", these dimensions are those observed on as new guns by experts----who say .012" is about it for headspace.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[iby]

IMO it is not a copy

 

[fredcoyote]

Well good deal. Glad to hear no one thinks something looks wrong.

I'll post a few pics when I pick up.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[fredcoyote]

Update!

So it finally arrived at my local Bass pro and they were able to send me a picture of the top of the barrel. All markings are there! Have to run out of town so I can't pick up till Tuesday but it's looking promising.

Post a couple more pics when I get back. Thank you all for your help.

Fred

 

[Masterpiece]

So it finally arrived at my local Bass pro and they were able to send me a picture of the top of the barrel. All markings are there! Have to run out of town so I can't pick up till Tuesday but it's looking promising.

Post a couple more pics when I get back. Thank you all for your help.

Fred,

Thanks so much for posting the photo...Very glad to hear the Barrel Address was still intact...Looking forward to hear how it "Letters"...Good Luck!!

 

[Model19man]

Photo resized and rotated. Looks nice!

 

[mmaher94087]

Great find! The Japanese armorers did install non-S&W lanyard rings. They would then stamp a serial number on the butt, but it may not be more than three numbers not related to the factory serial number. The Argentine shipped revolvers also had a non-S&W lanyard ring installed. I'd get a letter just to settle my curiosity.

 

[fredcoyote]

Picked it up today!

Got the old girl this morning on the way to work. So...

I think I got a shooter... She has zero play when locked up. Timing is better than some of my newer ones. Cylinder gap is tight .010. Serial number on butt, cylinder, latch, barrel by latch, and scratched inside of right grip. Bore is surprisingly crisp and shiny even without cleaning. About the only finish is in the flutes and a little under barrel rib.

I'll try to get my first letter requested tomorrow.

Funny thing, Gun vault guy at Bass Pro said no guns will ever leave the store without a 4473 which I argued a bit but said fine. He started the form but ran into a problem adding the Smith since the smart Vegas BPS guy entered it as an antique so they ate crow and just gave me a release without 4473! All good guys though.

More on it later since i'm tired from travel and work!

Fred

 

[fredcoyote]

Second Batch of Pics

 

[iby]

Nice Fred. I love the #3's
It may be a factory lanyard ring .
Your letter might say

 

[mmaher94087]

Interesting to see a five-digit number AND the same as the serial number. The lanyard ring is not from S&W. It is typical, as is the reserialization, of revolvers sent to Argentina. A letter is in order, and I would be very surprised if it was sent anywhere but Argentina. I'm envious. I want one for my collection.