History of the .22/32 Kit Guns - edited 6/20/14

[handejector]

One final shot here (in the dark? ). This gun bears both "R" stamps on the barrel and extractor, and an "S" stamp near the bottom of the grip frame on the right side (see pictures).

The "R" standing for "Rework," it seems logical to me that this stamp would not be applied to parts, but to complete or near-complete guns that did not meet then-current standards, and which were marked for upgrading.

The "S" means the gun was upgraded to include the hammer block safety. This was common with some Victory models produced before the safety was added. There would have been no need for the "S" stamp if the gun was simply put together from parts. It implies there was existing lockwork which needed to be modified.

I lied.
I'll post again.

What pics do you mean?
I would like to see a pic of the S.

Victories that were upgraded to the new hammer block had an S stamped on the sideplate under the grip horn, not the gripframe, and the S was added to the butt number.
An S on the gripframe usually means 'Service Dept' and was added when they fixed cosmetic or mechanical problems found on completed guns.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I lied.
I'll post again.

What pics do you mean?
I would like to see a pic of the S.

Victories that were upgraded to the new hammer block had an S stamped on the sideplate under the grip horn, not the gripframe, and the S was added to the butt number.
An S on the gripframe usually means 'Service Dept' and was added when they fixed cosmetic or mechanical problems found on completed guns.

Lee,

I had posted these pics previously on another thread, but to save you the trouble of looking them up, here they are again. I think you'll agree that they are interesting, and we'll see what Roy has to say in the factory letter. The "R" stamp was also found under the ejector star, but was impossible to photograph adequately.

Best,
John

 

[PALADIN85020]

Factory letter on the gun in the original post!

Just received the S&W factory letter on the gun in the original post. Here is the specific quote from Roy Jinks on it:

We have researched your Smith & Wesson .22/32 Kit Gun, Pre-Model 34 Variation, caliber .22 Long Rifle, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number 53454x was shipped from our factory on June 5, 1951, and delivered to J. Baxter Gardner, Ardsley-on-Hudson, NY. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 4 inch barrel equipped with a Patridge front sight, bright blue finish, and checkered walnut round butt grips. The frame for this revolver was produced prior to World War II, but the revolver was not completed until after World War II. There were a group of 25 units that were assembled in this time frame having the serial numbers 534533 - 534557.

So, this one is a rare bird - frame made prior to the war, completed after the war with upgraded post-war parts, and given a bright blue finish. One of only 25 so made and still in original as-shipped condition! I'm tickled to let you know what Roy found out about it! This particular gun will be covered in my coming book, 101 Classic Firearms.

John

 

[Hondo44]

Bravo! That's a good letter and surefire confirmation.

 

[PALADIN85020]

It's interesting that the gun was sent to an individual, J. Baxter Gardner. I Googled that name and the town, and actually came up with a couple of news clippings on him from 1947. One of them mentioned that he was going out of town on a hunting trip to Tennessee. How times have changed. Guns don't get sent to individuals now (unless they are FFL holders), and folks don't announce in the papers or elsewhere when they are going out of town. I wonder if it was a special order, especially since a "bright blue finish" was specified. It still sparkles.

How the gun came out of NY state to Arizona is anybody's guess; and it's amazing that it's still in such incredible condition. The gun just walked in off the street at a gun show several months ago. The owner was showing it to a dealer who could not offer him what it was worth and still mark it up. I asked to see it, and immediately struck a deal. I couldn't be more pleased.

John

 

[Hondo44]

John,

I'm just as impressed with that gun and excited for you. To me it's a find of a lifetime, as much as a TL or RM is to most folks. It's just such a unique package of pre and post war production features and yet still completely factory original.

If I had to guess, "gun-to-my-head", I would say the finish is the original pre war bright blue or if not blued already, it no doubt already had the pre war high polish on the metal, therefore came out bright when blued.

My reasoning for this opinion is that a special ordered bright blue finish is usually indicated by Roy in his letter. Also, during the period when satin blue was standard, a large B was usually stamped after the serial # on the barrel flat to indicate the optional bright blue finish.

Either way, it's the best blue finish I've ever seen on a post war I frame and as good or better than the pre war blue. My pre war kit gun's finish shown here, although nice, certainly doesn't rival yours; and neither does my photo taking skill!

 

[PALADIN85020]

John,

I'm just as impressed with that gun and excited for you. To me it's a find of a lifetime, as much as a TL or RM is to most folks. It's just such a unique package of pre and post war production features and yet still completely factory original.

If I had to guess, "gun-to-my-head", I would say the finish is the original pre war bright blue or if not blued already, it no doubt already had the pre war high polish on the metal, therefore came out bright when blued.

My reasoning for this opinion is that a special ordered bright blue finish is usually indicated by Roy in his letter. Also, during the period when satin blue was standard, a large B was usually stamped after the serial # on the barrel flat to indicate the optional bright blue finish.

Either way, it's the best blue finish I've ever seen on a post war I frame and as good or better than the pre war blue. My pre war kit gun's finish shown here, although nice, certainly doesn't rival yours; and neither does my photo taking skill!

Jim,

I would hate to disagree with you a bit, because I'm sure you've forgotten more than I could ever learn on these guns, but let me make an observation.

I think the high polish blue on this gun may be post-war. As I'm sure you know, numbered stocks are always finish-formed on the frame, and the stocks and the metal are thereby finally mated as a matched set.

These post-war numbered stocks are a perfect fit to the frame - check the photos of the gun to verify this. Since the final high polish and bright bluing had to be applied after the mating of the stocks to the frame, it seems logical that the finish had to post-date the stocks, which are definitely postwar. Is my logic faulty here? I can see that an initial high polish might have been applied pre-war, and that the grip frame could have been buffed to match after the war and then blued - another possibility.

John

 

[Hondo44]

Jim,

I would hate to disagree with you a bit, because I'm sure you've forgotten more than I could ever learn on these guns, but let me make an observation.

I think the high polish blue on this gun may be post-war. As I'm sure you know, numbered stocks are always finish-formed on the frame, and the stocks and the metal are thereby finally mated as a matched set.

These post-war numbered stocks are a perfect fit to the frame - check the photos of the gun to verify this. Since the final high polish and bright bluing had to be applied after the mating of the stocks to the frame, it seems logical that the finish had to post-date the stocks, which are definitely postwar. Is my logic faulty here? I can see that an initial high polish might have been applied pre-war, and that the grip frame could have been buffed to match after the war and then blued - another possibility.

John

John,

No, not faulty at all and you make an excellent point. The grips did have to be fit to the frame after the war and the frame blued OR REBLUED.

I'm just trying to reason why it would have a bright blue finish in 1951 with no indications that it was special ordered with the bright blue option, i.e., the large B stamping and not in Roy's shipping records to include in his letter.

I always understood that the bright shiny finish comes mostly from the level of bright shiny metal polishing before being blued. So if the frame was sitting in process all polished ready to blue or already blued when commercial production came to a screeching halt for war production, after the war the grips would be match fitted, the grip frame polished and then blued or reblued.

The more I use your reasoning, the more I believe you're correct; blued or reblued after the war. In fact logic tells me that any gun part sitting around thru the war and until completed or rebuilt in 1951 would clearly need refinishing.

And that may explain the exceptional bright shiny finish; if it was already polished for a bright pre war blue job, would they scratch it all up again for a satin finish? Or would they just re-polish it resulting in an extraordinary high polish? I think maybe the latter. But I admit, I just don't know.

Like you observed, odd that it was shipped to an individual but maybe J. Baxter Gardner was a friend of the Wesson's and could he have ordered the gun thru them which had extra care or did he get a very special gift from them?

I just know it's an unbelievably beautiful gun!

 

[A10]

This is why I love this place......so much to learn!

 

[Hondo44]

John,

I just completed reading your edited history of the 22/32. This line: " A significant change came in 1961 when the Model 34 Kit Gun was produced using the complete "J" frame...." could be misleading and you might want to consider something like this: 'The change from I frame to J frame was authorized October 1960....'

It's from pg 152 in Roy's book, H of S&W.

And you might want to consider including this key option, wide target trig.

Otherwise it looks great!

 

[PALADIN85020]

John,

I just completed reading your edited history of the 22/32. This line: " A significant change came in 1961 when the Model 34 Kit Gun was produced using the complete "J" frame...." could be misleading and you might want to consider something like this: 'The change from I frame to J frame was authorized October 1960....'

It's from pg 152 in Roy's book, H of S&W.

And you might want to consider including this key option, wide target trig.

Otherwise it looks great!

I didn't mention it, but in Roy's authenticating letter, he mentions that the conversion to the J frame was not fully effected until 1961; it was in transition until then. Generally there is a lag behind authorization to general application as existing stocks of the old items become exhausted. I toyed with mentioning the authorization date (I read the book), but figured it would be simpler to mention the year of full implementation. There's so much data and and strict limitations on my word count.

Quoting from Roy's factory letter on this gun:

"In 1961 this model was totally converted to the standard "J" frame and the -1 was added to the model number."

I think I'll stick to keeping it that simple.

Thanks!

John

 

[PALADIN85020]

Here is the factory letter...

Here's the factory letter on this revolver, just received from Roy Jinks. If it's not very readable here, a larger picture is in the Pictures & Albums section of the Forum.

John

 

[Rex Goliath]

Kudos for Paladin. Wow, what a story... and if not already... sticky worthy. Time for me to dig into the deep recesses of the safe.
J. Baxter Gardner by name made it into Sports Illustrated Oct. 25, 1954 in a hunting article. Beautiful gun with a great bonus story.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1128768/index.htm
Sent using Tapatalk

 

[PALADIN85020]

Kudos for Paladin. Wow, what a story... and if not already... sticky worthy. Time for me to dig into the deep recesses of the safe.
J. Baxter Gardner by name made it into Sports Illustrated Oct. 25, 1954 in a hunting article. Beautiful gun with a great bonus story.
Pheasants Rising - 10.25.54 - SI Vault
Sent using Tapatalk

It looks like ol' J. Baxter was a bit of a sportsman - and he had a very nice kit gun!

John