Homeless shower stations.

How can we claim to be a Christian nation and turn our backs?[/QUOTE]

Stop claiming to be what others say we should be; AND SEND THAT STATUE BACK TO FRANCE.
 
Maybe the minimum wage should be $100 an hour…..no, $500 and hour, that should take care of poverty, right?

I've asked hundreds of people what a living wage number is, never received an answer.

I want to live on Martha's Vineyard.

We do the best we can.
 
When the richest 10 men in American have over 3 times as much wealth as the bottom 50%, I fail to see how the nation's major problems are being caused the bottom 50%.


I fail to see how that comparison explains anything (other than money corrupts politics). That kind of reasoning seems to suggest that wealth is a zero sum game where if I have a dollar that deprives you of a chance to have that dollar - doesn't work that way. People seem to think that the existing "wealth" is created by the "money" printed by the government and though it defies logic, that because Bill Gates has billions of those dollars (in reality he does not physically) that that means there are less dollars floating around for the rest of us. Again, doesn't work that way.

Though not a popular take among the proletariat, the real reason for the state of wealth and poverty (indeed all over the world) is the political control of those in power. Even more of a tragedy is that unlike certain countries where being born into "royalty" or power taken by a warlord who rules with an iron fist controls every cent, in our system and country we have voted our overlords in by our our own hand, and given them more power over us than they were ever intended to have (BATF ring a bell as well as most any other sacred cow subdivision of goobermint ? ) based on their empty promises and rhetoric and bought that " bag of magic beans". The US Constitution written by those 'old dead white guys' gave us the opportunity to do and have better, and compared to most places in the world we still have that opportunity. But we have allowed those whose tactics are to divide us and pit one group against another to foster the "us against them" attitude and brand success as the fruits of evil and greed with the successful "refusing to share" with the rest of us. Thus robbing Peter to pay Paul has not only become commonplace but has been elevated to virtuous behavior and policy when Paul is a deadbeat that won't work even when he's physically and mentally able.

A very good book I read plainly says that, a) the poor we will always have with us; b) we who are able must do what we can to help them; and c) that a man who will not protect and provide for his family is worse than an infidel and that if he won't work he shouldn't expect to eat. With choice comes responsibility, or at least it's supposed to. We have basically allowed that notion to fall out of favor. Those who cannot, cannot, CANNOT provide for themselves (see item 'a') must be helped by those who can (see item 'b'). Trouble is, in the name of 'compassion' and 'dignity' and 'progressiveness' we have allowed, encouraged and facilitated the notion, idea, policy that we must not even consider item 'c' as it is somehow "cruel and unacceptable".

Our system guarantees (or is supposed to) equality of opportunity - not equality of outcome. Too many of us have forgotten or jettisoned that notion when we enter the voting booth.
 
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When you get more for doing less, we all suffer in the long run. I suppose that it is easy to hand out other people's money and hail yourself as a problem solver if they let you while the supply lasts.
 
I fail to see how that comparison explains anything (other than money corrupts politics). That kind of reasoning seems to suggest that wealth is a zero sum game where if I have a dollar that's deprives you of a chance to have that dollar - doesn't work that way. People seem to think that the existing "wealth" is created by the "money" printed by the government and though it defies logic, that because Bill Gates has billions of those dollars (in reality he does not physically) that that means there are less dollars floating around for the rest of us. Again, doesn't work that way.

Though not a popular take among the proletariat, the real reason for the state of wealth and poverty (indeed all over the world) is the political control of those in power. Even more of a tragedy is that unlike certain countries where being born into "royalty" or power taken by a warlord who rules with an iron fist controls every cent, in our system and country we have voted our overlords in by our our own hand, and given them more power over us they were ever intended to have (BATF ring a bell as well as most any other sacred cow subdivision of goobermint ? ) based on their empty promises and rhetoric and bought that " bag of magic beans". The US Constitution written by those 'old dead white guys' gave us the opportunity to do and have better, and compared to most places in the world we still have that opportunity. But we have allowed those whose tactics are to divide us and pit one group against another to foster the "us against them" attitude and brand success as the fruits of evil and greed with the successful "refusing to share" with the rest of us. Thus robbing Peter to pay Paul has not only become commonplace but has been elevated to virtuous behavior and policy when Paul is a deadbeat that won't work even when he's physically and mentally able.

A very good book I read plainly says that, a) the poor we will always have with us; b) we who are able must do what we can to help them; and c) that a man who will not protect and provide for his family is worse than an infidel and that if he won't work he shouldn't expect to eat. With choice comes responsibility, or at least it's supposed to. We have basically allowed that notion to fall out of favor. Those who cannot, cannot, CANNOT provide for themselves (see item 'a') must be helped by those who can (see item 'b'). Trouble is, in the name of 'compassion' and 'dignity' and 'progressiveness' we have allowed, encouraged and facilitated the notion, idea, policy that we must not even consider item 'c' as it is somehow "cruel and unacceptable".

Our system guarantees (or is supposed to) equality of opportunity - not equality of outcome. Too many of us have forgotten or jettisoned that notion when we enter the voting booth.

Ah but money has corrupted politics big time. When the lower 50% calls or writes their congressman a staffer reads it and sends out a form letter, when one of the 3 million that have as much wealth as the rest of us combine calls their congressman he comes to the phone and gives them the answers and votes they want.The welfare state is exactly what they want
 
Ah but money has corrupted politics big time. When the lower 50% calls or writes their congressman a staffer reads it and sends out a form letter, when one of the 3 million that have as much wealth as the rest of us combine calls their congressman he comes to the phone and gives them the answers and votes they want.The welfare state is exactly what they want

So you're saying we have an oligarchy?
 
Seattle spends a lot of money on the homeless. ~ $100,000 annually apiece IIRC.
They buy them a couple tents, some clothing and meals. Throw in a generous~$20,000 for social and police services.
Where does the other $55,000 go?
Kickbacks, sweetheart no-bid contracts, votes and theft?
 
Ματθιας;141870867 said:
So you're saying we have an oligarchy?

When almost 9 billion dollars were spend to elect the federal house and senate members in 2022, YES. During those mid terms 107.7 million votes were cast. That figures out to $83.5 a vote and as there were 435 house members and 35 senators up for election for a total of 470 and 9 billion divided by 470 is over 19 million a pop. Just who do you think footed the bill for that? I am sure it wasn't the homeless or the people making $20 an hour or less.
 
I'm late to this discussion and having worked in the city transit business for thirty nine years I've seen quite of bit of poor folk making ends meet as well as those on the dole taking every scrap they can get and then some. My son married into a clan of white trash that didn't have one legal driver's license or full set of teeth in the whole damned family. I feel for the working poor and know many that have pulled themselves and families out of abject poverty to live successful, productive lives today. They made good use of the help they got from the "system" and I believe would have done the same without the help, it just "helped". Folks with a survivor's mentality will get stuff done and appreciate what they have, pride drives many of them.
Many of the homeless have mental problems, they need help...not handouts but help. Some of them need to be in a regimented, secure, well maintained facility...not jail. They can't take care of themselves and are entitled to their freedom but if they are hungry and need a place to sleep they need to accept the fact that it can't be on their terms, otherwise they can continue living off the street. People without much knowledge of history don't realize why the "Dark Ages" were known for that label. Many people in that era basically lived on the street, under bridges, in large underground places in big cities where it was DARK, children were raised and grew up knowing darkness with very little light. There were very little chances or opportunities for rising above that poverty level, crime was rampant, life meant little. I believe Socrates said "A society is only as civilized as it treats those with the least amount to give." We need to do something positive about this situation or shrug our shoulders and forget history and what it has taught us. Problem right now is that the place many of those people went to escape the Dark Ages and crushing poverty doesn't want any more people to help lift up...that would be us. I pay my taxes and don't mind helping people out that show an interest in helping themselves, I balk at paying taxes in order to increase someone's largess. That would include many politicians along for the ride.
 
The short summary of our system:

D and R are not political parties - they are businesses. Just like Ford and Chevy. Their business is selling favors.

They are in Washington to create a market for their favors. By which they pass laws and create a regulation environment such that no one can operate legally or to get a competitive advantage except by buying favors.

Whether you are D or R is simply a matter of which are selling the favors you want.
 
The short summary of our system:

D and R are not political parties - they are businesses. Just like Ford and Chevy. Their business is selling favors.

They are in Washington to create a market for their favors. By which they pass laws and create a regulation environment such that no one can operate legally or to get a competitive advantage except by buying favors.

Whether you are D or R is simply a matter of which are selling the favors you want.


More like criminal gangs that sell our government to the highest bidders
 
As a retired pipefitter and fixed up many places where the pipe's are just ripped out of the wall and taken to the scrapyard for pennies on the dollar, its quite possible that things will get very interesting. A set up like this will also have the electric wires taken. Yes stuff like this does happen!:eek:

I build houses and commercial buildings and just had the copper pipe stolen out of a building I'm constructing. They probably got 50 bucks at the scrapyard and the total cost of repairs and replacement cost me nearly $25,000. We saw bums constantly plugging their phones and electric razors into my temporary power pole next to the building but when you run them off more come later.
 
I build houses and commercial buildings and just had the copper pipe stolen out of a building I'm constructing. They probably got 50 bucks at the scrapyard and the total cost of repairs and replacement cost me nearly $25,000. We saw bums constantly plugging their phones and electric razors into my temporary power pole next to the building but when you run them off more come later.

Sorry to hear that. Its a shame how much time and effort gets ruined in just a couple minutes and a few dollars profit for the scrapper. The worst part is the junk yards know what they are getting and that sort of condones that kind of theft!:mad:
 
I build houses and commercial buildings and just had the copper pipe stolen out of a building I'm constructing. They probably got 50 bucks at the scrapyard and the total cost of repairs and replacement cost me nearly $25,000. We saw bums constantly plugging their phones and electric razors into my temporary power pole next to the building but when you run them off more come later.

They found a couple of idiots inside the fence of a local substation, guess they thought there must be a bunch of copper with less work and just a short pitch over the fence. Fried like taters they was, good riddance.
 
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