How does Buffalo Bore do it?
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Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Speer #8 data. Been using it for years! 
I don't know how they're accomplishing it, but they're getting higher average (not peak) pressure.
They may have access to some lines of powders that we don't. A few years back, I got a 4 lb jug of Accurate Arms #9C. I couldn't find it in any loading manuals, so I called them. Not only would they not help me with any loading data, they told me that powder was for 'commercial' reloaders and not for individuals and wanted to know how I got it, as if I'd done something wrong by buying it.
Dragon88
Member
Non canister grade powders, blended powders, and good pressure testing equipment.
Yes-non canister grade powders but mostly a willingness to cut the margins closer. For instance. .380acp has a SAAMI Max pressure of 21,500psi. The average "MAX" load in our manuals produced around 16kpsi when tested. The labs are leaving plenty of room for variations in loading (neck tension, seating depth, crimp, actual bullet diameter, jacket hardness, bearing surface,etc.) . Most factory loads develop similar pressures-there is room for out of spec firearms, tight chambers, dirty bores, high temperatures etc. Buffalo Bore loads .380 +P ammo-(there is no SAAMI standard for 380 +P but BB is keeping those loads under 25000psi). So ........most data is 20%+ under SAAMI max BB goes about 15% over SAAMI max. That is a big gap. Is BB dangerous? Probably not-it is well under proof pressures.. Will it beat up a gun faster? Yes. EVEN in rounds that are "standard pressure" BB gets high performance. How? they simply load very close to max pressure standards instead of well under.
Other makers load "underperforming ammo" for a couple reasons. One is margin of safety but the other is convenience for the manufacturer -----The big makers load to a particular performance specification. They buy powder by the boxcar load. If the new lot of powder has to develop 15% higher pressure to get the same velocity as the previous lot there is room under the pressure ceiling.
Other makers load "underperforming ammo" for a couple reasons. One is margin of safety but the other is convenience for the manufacturer -----The big makers load to a particular performance specification. They buy powder by the boxcar load. If the new lot of powder has to develop 15% higher pressure to get the same velocity as the previous lot there is room under the pressure ceiling.
Peter M. Eick
Member
I personally belive that Treeman is much closer to the truth. They have access to good powders and the tools to shave the margins a lot closer. Also for the price they charge per round, they know that few will buy it, fewer will use a lot of it, so what is the real risk to them? If they do blow a gun here or there (extremely unlikely in my opinion) whats the big deal. They make enough profit and roll it into the costs of doing business.
If we as experienced reloaders had access to the pressure barrels and the other powders, what we do? The same thing. Run the loads up to near max and find the best accuracy or power level we desired.
We don't need several layers of safety because we are in general not shooting weak guns and as reloaders hopefully understanding what we are doing.
If we as experienced reloaders had access to the pressure barrels and the other powders, what we do? The same thing. Run the loads up to near max and find the best accuracy or power level we desired.
We don't need several layers of safety because we are in general not shooting weak guns and as reloaders hopefully understanding what we are doing.
I tied some of their "FBI" load 158 gr LSWCHP 38 Spl +P.
Ran 5 rounds through my 442. That was enough. It is brutal.Lots of "boom" and recoil. I see no reason for it. From a 1-7/8 barrel the abuse to the gun and hand is not going to do any more that a Speer GD 135 gr +P. Or Rem Golden Saber.
I shot the rest out of a Ruger SP101 and it felt the same as a 357 Mag.
Ran 5 rounds through my 442. That was enough. It is brutal.Lots of "boom" and recoil. I see no reason for it. From a 1-7/8 barrel the abuse to the gun and hand is not going to do any more that a Speer GD 135 gr +P. Or Rem Golden Saber.
I shot the rest out of a Ruger SP101 and it felt the same as a 357 Mag.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Short, to the point and correct!
And, like said in "Treeman's" post, they are willing to push the limits instead of sending out anemic ammo.
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I too believe that BB loads right up to the maximum SAMMI pressures while the "Big 3" load well under max. pressures because they are overly concerned with lawsuits, using their ammo in 100 year old guns, and stupidity. I also think that they are blending powders for a maximum efficiency in specific barrel lengths, and carefully choosing their bullets. When BB sells loads for short 2" bbl. Snub Nose Revolvers that is exactly what they have engineered them for, where as when Rem. Win. & Fed. sell loads, they are generic loads for the most part.
I also believe that the Big 3 Companies are more interested in making big bucks with Military and Law Enforcement Agency contracts than supplying civilians with state of the art defense ammo.
Chief38
I also believe that the Big 3 Companies are more interested in making big bucks with Military and Law Enforcement Agency contracts than supplying civilians with state of the art defense ammo.
Chief38
I will bet on all of the above.
And I will bet against any "blended powder". Considering how long and how much ammunition may be knocked around by the consumer, I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a chance on powders with different burning characteristics becoming "unblended"...with unpredictable results.
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cjw3:
I have been testing Buffalo Bore's ammo for a while now and not only are the results, velocities and lack of muzzle flash consistent, but it is far and away less variable than ammo tested from the major manufacturers. When I Chronograph loads, the BB 158gr. 38 Spl. +P LSWCHP has a standard deviation of 8, while Win. Fed. & Rem. usually average 25 to 30.
I was extremely skeptical at first as these results seem to good to be true, but after testing these loads for over a year and a half now, I can not ignore the incredibly excellent and consistent results. I suppose just like any other product, one size does NOT fit all, and everybody needs to use and count on what makes them feel comfortable. For me it's Buffalo Bore.
I have been testing Buffalo Bore's ammo for a while now and not only are the results, velocities and lack of muzzle flash consistent, but it is far and away less variable than ammo tested from the major manufacturers. When I Chronograph loads, the BB 158gr. 38 Spl. +P LSWCHP has a standard deviation of 8, while Win. Fed. & Rem. usually average 25 to 30.
I was extremely skeptical at first as these results seem to good to be true, but after testing these loads for over a year and a half now, I can not ignore the incredibly excellent and consistent results. I suppose just like any other product, one size does NOT fit all, and everybody needs to use and count on what makes them feel comfortable. For me it's Buffalo Bore.
I know all that; I just think it is most likely that they are able to achieve these results with non-canister powder along with higher quality control than is typical with most of the other products from the larger manufacturers.
ramptester
Member
Probably the majority of shooters are either new or occasional at best. If a guy shoots manufacturer A's 357 or 44 magnum and it is downloaded, he feels like a real man and buys some more to shoot. If it pounds him into tomorrow, he buys brand B next time.
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