Aussie44
Member
RightWinger,I'm installing a bull barrel on a 586 tomorrow and will take step by step pics for you and post here.
Ken
Ken
How is a revolver barrel installed...
- Thread starter RightWinger
- Start date
Aussie44
Member
Installing a Barrel
I have here a L Frame already stripped waiting for a barrel.First of all when you take the original barrel off,There is a ridge left on the front of the frame,If you are installing the same barrel or a factory barrel you do not have to remove the ridge.In my case here I'm installing a Bull barrel and the ridge must come off as it will interfere with the larger diameter shoulder of the bull barrel.What you do is remove just enough to take the ridge off,It must be done perfectly straight or the barrel will not seat flush.Even a couple of thou can put stress on the barrel and frame.Pic 1 is the frame(Sorry about the bad pics)
Pic 2 is the Front of the frame
Pic 3 The Frame Wrench
Pic 4 Is the barrel 1/8 before final torque
Pic 5 What it looks like in the Wrench.
I scribe a line on the barrel at 12 o'clock as you can see in the next pic.
That line is for top dead center when I torque the barrel onto the frame.Everyone does it different but I measure the top of the frame and get the center of the frame,99% of the time the screw hole for the rear sight is spot on.The next pic is the barrel installed onto the frame.
Tomorrow I'll adjust the B/C Gap,Cut the forcing cone...
Ken
I have here a L Frame already stripped waiting for a barrel.First of all when you take the original barrel off,There is a ridge left on the front of the frame,If you are installing the same barrel or a factory barrel you do not have to remove the ridge.In my case here I'm installing a Bull barrel and the ridge must come off as it will interfere with the larger diameter shoulder of the bull barrel.What you do is remove just enough to take the ridge off,It must be done perfectly straight or the barrel will not seat flush.Even a couple of thou can put stress on the barrel and frame.Pic 1 is the frame(Sorry about the bad pics)
Pic 2 is the Front of the frame
Pic 3 The Frame Wrench
Pic 4 Is the barrel 1/8 before final torque
Pic 5 What it looks like in the Wrench.
I scribe a line on the barrel at 12 o'clock as you can see in the next pic.
That line is for top dead center when I torque the barrel onto the frame.Everyone does it different but I measure the top of the frame and get the center of the frame,99% of the time the screw hole for the rear sight is spot on.The next pic is the barrel installed onto the frame.
Tomorrow I'll adjust the B/C Gap,Cut the forcing cone...
Ken
500 Magnum Nut
Member
Excellent job!dfariswheel
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My GOD, someone who's actually using the correct tools and doing it the right way.
Be still my heart.
Be still my heart.
Bullseye Smith
Member
Aussie can I ask why you didn't do the B/C gap while the barrel was off. For me that is the easy way, and most of the time I don't need a lathe.
PS Aussie, Very good job showing what needs to be done.
PS Aussie, Very good job showing what needs to be done.
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HEADKNOCKER
Member
I also wondered how the nylon insert is removed from the frame once the barrel is installed if you use a larger the frame sized barrel as in your case, Unless there's a split in the nylon that I can't see..
Thanks for the pics & discription of the work involved to change the barrel..
Also wondered were you got those barrel blanks over in Australia?? I have a Buddy that lives in Adelade..
Thanks again!!
Gary/Hk
Thanks for the pics & discription of the work involved to change the barrel..
Also wondered were you got those barrel blanks over in Australia?? I have a Buddy that lives in Adelade..
Thanks again!!
Gary/Hk
Aussie44
Member
I'm presently awaiting a reply from S&W regarding my new Model 14 revolver the front sight of which is clearly off center to the left. That is, the whole barrel is overtightened so that the grooves on the barrel do not line up with those on the top strap.
Perhaps S&W might have a look at this thread.
To further expand on this, removing from the shoulder .0277" allows the barrel to turn one revolution. One full turn is 360 degrees. So you take .0277 and divide it into 360 parts. So you know how much to take off the shoulder to turn the barrel one degree. Then multiply that number by how many degrees you actually have to rotate the barrel.
Hopefully that makes sense. It's really quite simple once you wrap your mind around it all.
Great post
Great post and the number one reason I love this place, the learning never stops.
I learned years ago that doing anything right almost always involve lots of stuff not readily visible at first glance.
Thanks for the great posts.
Great post and the number one reason I love this place, the learning never stops.
I learned years ago that doing anything right almost always involve lots of stuff not readily visible at first glance.
Thanks for the great posts.
gordonrick
Member
Absolutely invaluable info. Thanks all!
One quick question - I understand if a barrel were un-torqued and then re-torqued, it will tighten a bit further. Anyone know approximately how many degrees further?
I have a new acquisition that had a not-so-professional barrel replacement somewhere along the line and the barrel is about 4-5 degrees before top dead center/12:00. Shot groups are tight but off to the left, as you would imagine. I'm thinking that maybe a local gunsmith could just back it off and re-torque it to 12:00 without any shoulder cutting or other adjustments. (B/C gap is .004)
I would like to fix it, but I'm wondering if it would be worth the expense/effort for an old non-collectable commonwealth Victory. There's always the bench-vise and pipe wrench technique... ;-)
Thanks!
One quick question - I understand if a barrel were un-torqued and then re-torqued, it will tighten a bit further. Anyone know approximately how many degrees further?
I have a new acquisition that had a not-so-professional barrel replacement somewhere along the line and the barrel is about 4-5 degrees before top dead center/12:00. Shot groups are tight but off to the left, as you would imagine. I'm thinking that maybe a local gunsmith could just back it off and re-torque it to 12:00 without any shoulder cutting or other adjustments. (B/C gap is .004)
I would like to fix it, but I'm wondering if it would be worth the expense/effort for an old non-collectable commonwealth Victory. There's always the bench-vise and pipe wrench technique... ;-)
Thanks!
stang1911
Member
One question - what is the actual torque specs. min. and max.?
dfariswheel
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How far a barrel will rotate after breaking torque depends on the individual gun and barrel and on how hard the gunsmith turns the frame wrench.
There is no specification for barrel torque on one piece barrels.
This is a judgment call by the pistolsmith based on where the barrel shoulder contacts the frame and how far it needs to rotate to have the front sight at 12:00 O'clock top-dead-center.
What's needed is enough torque to insure the barrel won't loosen under vibration, but not so tight that there's a risk of pressure compressing the bore or bending or cracking the frame.
This is based on the pistolsmith's experience and judgment.
I'm sure S&W has a torque spec on the new one piece barrels, but that's due to the different assembly method.
There is no specification for barrel torque on one piece barrels.
This is a judgment call by the pistolsmith based on where the barrel shoulder contacts the frame and how far it needs to rotate to have the front sight at 12:00 O'clock top-dead-center.
What's needed is enough torque to insure the barrel won't loosen under vibration, but not so tight that there's a risk of pressure compressing the bore or bending or cracking the frame.
This is based on the pistolsmith's experience and judgment.
I'm sure S&W has a torque spec on the new one piece barrels, but that's due to the different assembly method.
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I was real glad to see someone make the point of taking care of the cylinder endshake before barrel fitting. Not doing so is kinda like building a house without making sure the foundation is square & level. It's also a good time to check yoke alignment & play before trying to fit a barrel. Another issue is to make sure the faces of the cylinder are parallel and at right angles to the axis of the cylinder. I once worked on a gun with a cylinder with a 0.007" out of parallel situation-the factory fixed that part free before the lifetime warranty. Surface grinders are wonderful things
Once the cylinder is where it's supposed to be, you can measure from the front of the frame to the cylinder to determine the correct length of the barrel tenon to allow the proper B/C gap. This can be set on the lathe at the same time the forcing cone is corrected/cut.
There is a method of torquing fasteners (and barrels) where the number of degrees of rotation after contact determine the torque. Based upon observation, I believe this is the system S&W uses on one piece barrels.
Once the cylinder is where it's supposed to be, you can measure from the front of the frame to the cylinder to determine the correct length of the barrel tenon to allow the proper B/C gap. This can be set on the lathe at the same time the forcing cone is corrected/cut.
There is a method of torquing fasteners (and barrels) where the number of degrees of rotation after contact determine the torque. Based upon observation, I believe this is the system S&W uses on one piece barrels.
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Too bad Ken is no longer around, he helped quite a few folks with smithing issues.
cotton
Member
Thank-You all for taking the time and effort to explain that very interesting process.
Bill_in_fl
Member
Will Smith and Wesson still work on original model 1917 .45 acp revolvers for changing barrels/repair? I read somewhere that they won't do repairs on original 1917's anymore but do not know if that is accurate.
Anyone know?
.
Anyone know?
.
dfariswheel
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The best info on that, is to contact S&W and ask them.
You get the best, latest info direct from the experts.
You get the best, latest info direct from the experts.
I do not think I would attempt to change a barrel. I believe this should be done by a gunsmith. Do not get me wrong, you might be successful in getting your revolver back to 100%, however, it is a long shot in my opinion. Let the professionals do the job for you. I have a question though; how many .375 magnums rounds would it take to wear a heavy 3 inch barrel ?
dfariswheel
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That's a question that really has no valid answer.
A S&W "J" frame revolver barrel will probably wear or crack the forcing cone a lot faster then a "K" frame barrel would.
The "K" frame barrels have a history of cracks in the forcing cone after an uncertain amount of Magnum ammo, due to the flat spot on the bottom that's necessary to allow the cylinder yoke to close. This flat weakens the forcing cone area and allows cracks to start.
Some "K" frames developed cracks fairly soon. Others have gone many thousands of rounds with no problem.
A "L" frame or especially a "N" frame S&W will shoot almost unlimited amounts of .357 Magnum ammo because of the thicker rear portion of the barrel.
The "weak link" in a revolver barrel is the forcing cone area at the rear. As long as it's intact and not cracked or heavily eroded by hot magnum loads, a revolver barrel should last just about forever.
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