How many rounds per year before a progressive makes sense?

[MN2944]

I've been a reloader for over 20 years and have gone back and forth on the progressive loader issue a few times.

I know they can crank out massive quantities of ammo in a short period of time, but I am a bit concerned about some loss of quality control. I admit that I am a bit of a freak about my reloading, even when it comes to pistol rounds. I don't weigh every charge, but it is nice to actually monitor each step along the way. I'm not sure that is as easily accomplished on a progressive.

I timed myself the other day and made 100 rounds of 38spl on my Rockchucker in 1:06. I'm sure a Dillon could do many times that much (if all was running correctly).

Anyone else out there sticking with a single stage for bulk pistol loading? Is there a certain round count that you think is beyond a single stage making sense?

 

[jepp2]

Is there a certain round count that you think is beyond a single stage making sense?

I use both: 2 single stage presses and 2 Dillon RL550B presses. I perform many steps on the single stage and load all my rifle rounds on the single stage. I load almost all my handgun on the Dillons, except I deprime on a single stage.

I don't really see that I give up any quality on the Dillons, but it is just where I came out. Your decision may be based on what you load, how much you enjoy loading, and the time you want to spend loading.

 

[novalty]

I asked almost the same question a year or so ago. What I've found out is everyone's situation is different. I have a Rockchucker II for rifle reloading, and a Redding T7 for pistol, and will reload about 2,000 - 2,500 for shooting this year. My situation is different from members that live in southern states as I have all winter to reload, and can't go shooting year round. I know a couple thousand isn't much for some people, but a whole lot more than when I got back into shooting 6 years ago--when I was only shooting a couple hundred rounds per year.

 

[Geno44]

How precious is your time? Handgun cartridges save the most time on a progressive. I can probably load 400 rounds per hour on handgun rounds. Rifle goes a lot slower and I often load those on a single stage. I'm retired so I have more time than many of you but I don't like to waste it. I can put out 1000-1500 in a short evening with a Dillon 550. I like to have that capability. I have three RCBS single stages and two Dillon 550B's. I like them all.

 

[calmex]

Hi, I used to live up near you 25 years ago.

Now, where I live, we aren't supposed to reload, but it is not illegal. So when I do reload, I like to get a lot done. Using your own timing for a box of 100 shells, let me compare the XL 650 I use, loading .38 Special Heavy Duty loadings using Lee 160 grain SWC bullets (already sized and lubed beforehand).

Normally, in one hour, I would load 10 - 12 boxes of shells. That time includes filling the 5 primer tubes I have plus 100 down the primer feed rod. It includes switching out the full plastic bullet hoppers with ones that are empty. Acro-bins, that's what they are called. This would include answering the phone occasionally -- because if it's my store calling I have to answer -- unzipping dust-covers and other fiddley-bits but assuming the bullets themselves are sized, lubed and ready for loading and that the brass has been shell-sorted before starting the stopwatch. This is running the press at a rate where I keep an eye on what I'm doing instead of a "maximum production run" attempt.

My fastest single time for loading 100 rounds (with everything full and adjusted and ready to go from the word "Go!") was 4.28 minutes from 1st round to last round -- although sometimes your case-feed might stick or something, usually if everything's adjusted she runs really good and that time I worked smooth all the way through. I recommend the "shell sorter" by the way, to avoid getting a .380 or 9 brass mixed in with your .38 brass which can really bind things up for a minute or two when you end up sizing the wrong-sized case because it came down out of the casefeeder.

In my own case, it allows me to reload a month's worth of shooting in a couple of hours and greatly lessens my exposure-time "reloading" in a country where some idiot might actually try to make an issue of it. Although this isn't as great a concern as some might make it out to be, we do have to be careful because although reloading is not illegal here there are factions within the Mexican Army that like to prefer to act as if it truly is illegal and one should be cautious to a degree in the practise.

I initially was a little nervous that something that produces ammo that fast would be 100% reliable as to powder-charges, OAL lengths, etc., etc., but it truly is a magnificent press. I was using a pair of Square Deals for about 10 years, but the 650 is just night-and-day better. I'm not knocking the Square Deals, but once you go 650 you'll think it's just nifty.

I recommend the powder-check die. Originally, I thought it was an extravagance but now I am sold on it. A friend who had a pair of 650's told me to get it, and since he's been reliable on every other piece of advice he ever gave me, I followed through on his recommendation although I was in fact dubious at first.

As to your question about "how many rounds before you buy a progressive" my answer would be "whatever number you are shooting now will probably increase when you have a progressive since you will produce more." I shoot about 200 rounds a week on average -- year 'round since we have a 364 1/4 day shooting season (the Range is closed on Easter Friday every year. Go figure. Catholic country.) Say 10,000 rounds a year.

I have a single-stage press, by the way, for producing Lead-bullet, heavy-weight loadings in .303 British and .30-30 Winchester so it's not like I'm too snobbish to use a single-stage. I just think that for standard pistol loadings, of which I try to produce all I can make, the Progressive does it so much faster than a single-stage and as efficiently and reliably as my needs dictate. The time-saving is incredible, with no loss of confidence in the result produced once you've accustomed yourself to the new press.

 

[Lago86]

I am new to reloading brass. My son and I are shooting bullseye now so I looked into reloading, and poured over info for a long time. My son's coach let me try out her xl650 one night, and her her husband has a Square Deal. I ordered the 650 when I got home. I've installed an RCBS lockout die as a safeguard against the dreaded squib load, but I also visually check the powder level each pull off the handle. As a busy family man, this press has been a real time saver that will pay for itself sooner than later.

BTW...don't even try to find a used one. It's easier to get a carry permit in NJ

 

[novalty]

Calmex, great post. My only contention is that being able to reload faster does not equate to being able to shoot more. A person's budget is the determining factor. Just because the machine will do several hundred rounds an hour, doesn't mean I can afford to feed it, or in this market find components to keep it running for long.

 

[*chris*]

I timed myself the other day and made 100 rounds of 38spl on my Rockchucker in 1:06. I

I can reload 100 rounds of 38 special in 5-8 minutes on my Dillon 650. I have a small children that still like to spend time with me, so the 50 minutes of time savings is worth a lot of money to me. I only shoot a hundred rounds or so a week, but can reload a 2 month supply in 2 hours start to finish (loading primer tubes, loading powder, packaging the finished rounds.)

I bought a progressive reloader to save time, customize loads, and finally save a little money.

Chris

 

[calmex]

Calmex, great post. My only contention is that being able to reload faster does not equate to being able to shoot more. A person's budget is the determining factor. Just because the machine will do several hundred rounds an hour, doesn't mean I can afford to feed it, or in this market find components to keep it running for long.

Novalty:
Oh, I fully agree. Primers are not sold down here and cannot legally be imported. That said, there's lots around at about 100.00 dollars per 1,000. Powder does exist -- for a reason I won't go into because general knowledge of why would close a loophole -- at about the same price per pound.

I shoot about 10,000 rounds a year because that's what I can afford to shoot. I'd like to shoot more. I'd like to be able to get components. But it's a sacrifice I had to make to have year-round sun and the Banana-Republic atmosphere -- and I am not referring to the clothing line.

I find that being able to get the bulk of my competition pistol reloading out of the way quickly -- with high quality -- allows me to dedicate my time to the much slower but equally fulfilling Lead Bullet Cartridge Rifle reloading I'm really just getting into. This is done on a single-stage. Also, we cannot buy bullets here, they have to be cast up. That means I have to cast 10,000 of these things a year, then size and lube 'em. Yes, it's cheaper because Mexico is still chock-full of lead wheelweights but the casting takes time.

So being able to get the actual reloading out of the way quickly, efficiently and with a high-quality end product really helps.

While we are on the topic of "high-quality end product" the Lee Carbide sizing dies come down farther on the case than many other dies and stop that annoying bulge on .380 casings that always appear. Yes, those bulges can be "bulge-busted" out but it's nice if they don't appear in the first place. Also, the Lee Factory Taper Crimp die installed into the 5th position of your 650 will make sure that the finished round comes out at "chamber-guage" specs and these really work if you're not already using one. This was another piece of reloading gear a friend enthusiastically told me about that I was dubious of until I used one. Now, as the Monkees sang, "I'm a Believer!"

 

[novalty]

I bought a progressive reloader to save time, customize loads, and finally save a little money.

Chris

Customizing loads is not specific to progressive presses, and saving money is not inherent. If you exclude the cost of components which would be a constant between both single stage & progressive, it would actually cost more money when you factor in the cost of the equipment, which would be the only variable.

Saving time is the true benefit of a progressive press.

 

[Ceapea]

One consideration is this, how much time do you have to reload?
I was unemployed all of 2010. My brother gave me a SS press and one set of steel 38spl/357 dies, in August of 2010. After reading a bunch of online info, the ABC's of Handloading and picking up a few load books, I loaded just over 22,000 rounds in 14 months, using that press. I continued to use it for another 12-14 months (still do for some things) and then moved up to a progressive.
So, if you have the time, you can load all that you'll need on a SS press.

 

[Jellybean]

Anyone else out there sticking with a single stage for bulk pistol loading? Is there a certain round count that you think is beyond a single stage making sense?

Yes. I am like you and prefer the quality of single stage loading. I know that it is possible to load factory equivalent ammo on a good progressive, but quality is one of the main reasons I handload instead of buying factory.

I do have a progressive setup but round count alone was never an excuse for using it, it was a quantity/time issue that made that decision. I've only used it once since I retired, and that was to teach the son how to use it.

 

[vipermd]

Time Is the number 1 factor for me. I have over the years been forced into shooting factory due to lack of time. I just found some resized, primed 44 mag cases from 1987. So it all depends on your time. Be Safe,

 

[scattershot]

Mine made sense to me the day I took it out of the box. I still load rifle ammo on a single stage, but I sure love my Dillon.

 

[Engineer1911]

I know they can crank out massive quantities of ammo in a short period of time, but I am a bit concerned about some loss of quality control. I admit that I am a bit of a freak about my reloading, even when it comes to pistol rounds.

You will lose total control using a progressive. As a perfectionsist keep your single stage RockChucker and be happy .

I timed myself the other day and made 100 rounds of 38spl on my Rockchucker in 1:06.

I have a RockChucker with the original handle and a 10" special shorty handle. Before my Dillon 450, I could crank out 100 38 special in 30 minutes with the "shorty" handle. You definitely don't want a progressive because you won't control everything to a level of perfection you need.

There are people (perfectionists) who can't be comfortable with the "automated" processes of a progressive press. Spend your "progressive press" money on more components. Besides what else will you do in Minnesota in the winter when snow is up to your armpits and temperatures are far below ZERO? I made 800 .30 Herrett cases in February 1982.

 

[Twoboxer]

If you are shooting one caliber, one load, and leave your progressive set up . . . you'll get ~450, ~550, ~650 or more per hour depending on the progressive, how you equip it (case feeder, bullet feeder), and whether your components are properly prepared (primer tubes loaded too), arranged and at hand.

It's also important to consider things like what you do with finished ammo. If you have to pick it up out of the Akro bins one by one and put it in 50 or 100 round ammo boxes, that would already be done were you on a single stage press

Frankly, I would *never* fully change over a progressive from one caliber to another to do 100 rounds. My own minimum batch size is 500, and I would prefer to make 1,000. And I have the redundant equipment to make changeovers an "adjustment-free" process . . . unless I'm changing powder load.

Sometimes folks don't mention that they have multiple progressives or redundant equipment to minimize changeover time, but they still take time. And operating glitches are much more frequent on a progressive - they take time too.

YMMV, but the difference in quality between a progressive and a single stage is probably not measurable at 10 yards. But it can become important at rifle distances depending on you, your firearm, and your reason for shooting. I do pistol and sometimes 223 plinking ammo on the progressive (high volume, accurate enough), but if you want to get at the primer pockets it will take away much of the advantage of a progressive. Other 223 & 30-06 ammo is done on the single stage for case prep, weighed powder charges, concentricity, etc.

 

[MyDads38]

I have an RCBS single stage and 2 turret presses. I've never been able to convince myself I needed a progressive press, though the "blue Kool-Aid" is enticing!

I don't shoot as much as I used to and here in Indiana, you can't shoot year round. If I shoot 50-100 rounds a week, that's a lot for me and over an app. 8 months (32 weeks) that's 1,600-3,200 rounds/year. Even with 3 pistol cartridges and 1 rifle cartridge, I can load all I can shoot on a weekly basis; sometimes that's all I can get done between work & family anyway. Yeah, I know, if I had a progressive I could get it all done in a few days; but where's the fun in that? Guess it's a "balance" thing for me, as an evening or two per week gives me just enough for what I want to do shooting wise, along with time spent with family doing other things too. Reloading/shooting is a hobby for me-I'm no professional, I just enjoy it

 

[2rott]

I have been considering going to a progressive press also. I load about 1200 rounds a month. Mostly 38spl., some 45acp & occasionally 9mm & 308. I'm using an old Lyman turret press as a single stage & it works great. It saves me the trouble of changing dies often. When I add up the real costs of every thing I would want to buy, it's much more than I thought it would be. The 38's are the fastest to load & take me about 45 minutes per 100 if my 3 dies are set up & ready to go. That includes starting with clean brass, resizing, expanding, hand priming with an RCBS hand primer, dropping the charge, seating & crimping, with a 3 die set. Other calibers take longer.
I seem to spend a lot of time reloading, but I'm retired & find the time. If I wasn't retired I would probably not be able to reload as much. I do get a lot of satisfaction out of it.

 

[rwsmith]

I've got time.....

I'm retired and have time but not a lot of energy. So I take it slow with a single press. If I loaded as many as some people here I would have a progressive by now. Unfortunately my budget is limited so I may just have to be carrying on with my single stage.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have a progressive for my 12 Ga. loads, since I do a lot of trap, skeet, sporting clays and at one time did the ATA thing.....

I never got crazy with pistol or revolver loads but did put a lot of 22-250, 270, 30-30, 30-40, 308 and 30-06 rounds down range.

Like wise, I also have all winter to catch up on my ammo needs, so I have no need for a progressive in the small arms ammo dept.

If you belong to a shooting club , LE or other ways that a lot of ammo is needed, I can see where you could use a progressive, if you don't have the time or you have the money for the larger investment.

If you buy ammo at the gun shows , I would say around 103 boxes reloaded to break even.