How many who went to a red dot increase their HG accuracy by a minimum of 50% or more first shots

[DartonJager]

Late last year stumbled across a deal on a used but LNIB optics ready Walther 4" PDP compact to good to pass up. Had a couple of red dots on hand meant for turkey guns and put one on the PDP.
First range session I was utterly astonished how well I shot but especially how easily I shot consistently good and how my fliers all but vanished. My average group size at 15 and 25 yards shrunk by over 50%.

I had been hearing for the last 2-3 years my most respected HG YT people absolutely raving how much better they shot once they transitioned to a red dot on their HGs had far fewer fliers and the red dot helped during dryfires show them their mistakes in shooting form.

The fact I shot so much better with a red dot is why I bought a PC 4" Shield Plus as my new EDC.
I figured I'd shoot better with a red dot, just not instantly better. I'm guessing I have been using red dots for so long on my turkey guns, AR's and 9mm carbines it crossed over to using them on my HG's.

 

[rwsmith]

First, What's HG accuracy?? Second, I only have one red dot and it's on my AR carbine. I like it a lot and shoot well with it. I'd like to have more, maybe in time. I've always favored iron sights because that is 'real' shooting. I'm getting older now and not quite as steady and I have trouble seeing some iron sights. I know I'm the only one that has that problem.

 

[Beju]

Putting my dot guns in the hands of inexperienced shooters tends to greatly tighten up groups at target style shooting relative to iron sights.

I suspect it might slow them down relative to irons if they had to draw and present from a holster quickly, but that could be chalked up to a training issue.

 

[Cphobes]

I can’t quantify the improvement with numbers but groupings and accuracy all improved greatly.

For me it was a revelation in improvement.

 

[hardluk1]

First off for some of use folks what the hail is - HG YT people ?

For me a dot optics have two very different needson on a handgun , One is for slow controlled shooting or just fun target shooting and then theres defensive shooting for the average concealed carry person might need .

I started using a 2moa red dot - ultra dot sight on a DW revolver I hunted with back in ether late '90 or early '91 in a Buehler scope mount and 1" rings . Great accuracy upgrade at twice the yardage for that first shot . But you still have to develop short yardage defensive skills with a dot or open sights . That type of shooting for a new to dot optic shooter can make for a lengthy learning process.

We've had a ruger mk3 with a weigand rail mount on it since some time in the '90's with a dot optic for fun use as I was no longer as good shooting my old colt huntsman any more and needed a the dot optic . We also several m&p pistols now with green circle dot optics since holosun offered them . Turns out we both see the Green better than red but note lens coating regardless of dot color can change how well you see thru a dot in low light . . Both my wife and I still CC open sighted handguns using more of a " flash sight picture " defensive shooting style practiced for over 30 years . Not ready to CC a dot optic yet .

 

[M1A4ME]

At the time I went to dot optics on my handguns I was still doing alright with iron sights.

My reason for the dot optics was to increase the hours when the handgun could be useful (lowlight/no light that would allow the use of iron sights.) I know, I know, those people that say you shouldn't shoot a gun when you can't see the sights. But sometimes the bad guys don't wait till it's daylight and if I can see the outline of someone shooting at me the dot optics will let me put rounds on them when iron sights won't.

Now I can only see the iron sights when I'm wearing glasses. The dot optics are usable even without my glasses. The dot may be blurry but I can see it when the front sight isn't usable at all for my eyes. Again, I know I can't guarantee that I can keep my glasses on my face when things go south.

 

[dajogejr]

For me, it’s red dot or bust. I still occasionally shoot irons for fun, mostly other’s pistols.
As said, training is key. Learning to bring the pistol up to target takes practice with a dot.
But that dot takes all the left/right/center/height out of the equation for irons.

My search…is the dot that is cleanest/clearest. With my astigmatism that’s a challenge.. which, I’m willing to accept and keep testing

Dots have made me a much more consistent and accurate shooter.
But so has a ton of practice and trigger time with live fire.. pulling the trigger consistently and correctly is every bit as important as your aiming.

A trick I used to use is a laser and dry fire. It helped me in the beginning and helped my wife tremendously. (She’s a little too good of a shot, if you know what I mean…lol).
Keeping the laser on target through dry fire shows if you jerk, punch, dip, etc. Helps build memory via dry fire.
I shot competitive archery for years. I used a release. If you think you get a flier with a bullet, try an arrow at 20 yards…. That was great training for me for trigger discipline. Jerk, punch, pull the release in archery and you’re punished big time.

 

[zodraz]

I shoot my iron sighted single actions at 10 yards,and my dot sighted double actions at 25,with equal results. Dots on SA's just seem wrong.

 

[HJBM&P22Custom]

Late last year stumbled across a deal on a used but LNIB optics ready Walther 4" PDP compact to good to pass up. Had a couple of red dots on hand meant for turkey guns and put one on the PDP.
First range session I was utterly astonished how well I shot but especially how easily I shot consistently good and how my fliers all but vanished. My average group size at 15 and 25 yards shrunk by over 50%.

I had been hearing for the last 2-3 years my most respected HG YT people absolutely raving how much better they shot once they transitioned to a red dot on their HGs had far fewer fliers and the red dot helped during dryfires show them their mistakes in shooting form.

The fact I shot so much better with a red dot is why I bought a PC 4" Shield Plus as my new EDC.
I figured I'd shoot better with a red dot, just not instantly better. I'm guessing I have been using red dots for so long on my turkey guns, AR's and 9mm carbines it crossed over to using them on my HG's.

What was your average group size before and after for 15 yards and for 25 yards? And what is your setup? Free standing, one hand, two hands ? What is it ?

 

[Tom S.]

First, What's HG accuracy?? Second, I only have one red dot and it's on my AR carbine. I like it a lot and shoot well with it. I'd like to have more, maybe in time. I've always favored iron sights because that is 'real' shooting. I'm getting older now and not quite as steady and I have trouble seeing some iron sights. I know I'm the only one that has that problem.

My guess: handgun accuracy.

 

[Saudade]

I'm going to assume HG means HandGun and HG YT means HandGun YouTuber.

 

[Devil in the Shade]

I love the red dots on my AR's and shotguns. Ridiculous on a EDC given the average gun fight is less than 7 yards. And years of training for point and shoot skills deems a Red Dot useless and actually slower than Good point and shoot skills. Heck, if someone cannot see the target at below 15 yds they do not need a red dot, they need binoculars.

Teach your children the art of Point and shoot skills/instinctive shooting skills. Teach them the DAO trigger. Teach them to shoot a revolver well and they will become masters at the game.

 

[IAM Rand]

I carried on duty for about 23 +/- years before going to a red dot. S&W came out with the M&P metal and I snapped one up and put a Vortex Viper red dot and have not looked back. Still carry off duty irons but they do not make a red dot small enough right now for my off duty gun (CSX). I know that you have put one on but makes it a little more difficult for CCW.

I still practice with both to keep fresh and ready.

 

[rwsmith]

First, What's HG accuracy?? Second, I only have one red dot and it's on my AR carbine. I like it a lot and shoot well with it. I'd like to have more, maybe in time.

I love the red dots on my AR's and shotguns. Ridiculous on a EDC given the average gun fight is less than 7 yards. And years of training for point and shoot skills deems a Red Dot useless and actually slower than Good point and shoot skills. Heck, if someone cannot see the target at below 15 yds they do not need a red dot, they need binoculars.

Teach your children the art of Point and shoot skills/instinctive shooting skills. Teach them the DAO trigger. Teach them to shoot a revolver well and they will become masters at the game.

I agree very indeedly with the above, Point, shoot, take great pictures.

 

[rwsmith]

I can’t quantify the improvement with numbers but groupings and accuracy all improved greatly.

For me it was a revelation in improvement.

I found out the same thing. My wife was really something to see trying to shoot a rifle. Contorted and cockeyed. I let her shoot my AR with the red dot and she did great.

 

[rwsmith]

First off for some of use folks what the hail is - HG YT people ?

For me a dot optics have two very different needson on a handgun , One is for slow controlled shooting or just fun target shooting and then theres defensive shooting for the average concealed carry person might need .

I started using a 2moa red dot - ultra dot sight on a DW revolver I hunted with back in ether late '90 or early '91 in a Buehler scope mount and 1" rings . Great accuracy upgrade at twice the yardage for that first shot . But you still have to develop short yardage defensive skills with a dot or open sights . That type of shooting for a new to dot optic shooter can make for a lengthy learning process.

We've had a ruger mk3 with a weigand rail mount on it since some time in the '90's with a dot optic for fun use as I was no longer as good shooting my old colt huntsman any more and needed a the dot optic . We also several m&p pistols now with green circle dot optics since holosun offered them . Turns out we both see the Green better than red but note lens coating regardless of dot color can change how well you see thru a dot in low light . . Both my wife and I still CC open sighted handguns using more of a " flash sight picture " defensive shooting style practiced for over 30 years . Not ready to CC a dot optic yet .

I think that we are in the throes of obsessive initialism. Where we can't help but ITE. Soon we will BSI with initials that we won't know what THPATA.

 

[Oldsalt66]

Red dots for a combination of speed and precision.

Irons for ultimate slow fire precision.

Irons for ultimate speed when combat/self defense, precision is desired.

Youtube "influencers" notwithstanding. (Google Leviathan Tribe)

 

[Law-dog]

For me, it’s red dot or bust. I still occasionally shoot irons for fun, mostly other’s pistols.
As said, training is key. Learning to bring the pistol up to target takes practice with a dot.
But that dot takes all the left/right/center/height out of the equation for irons.

My search…is the dot that is cleanest/clearest. With my astigmatism that’s a challenge.. which, I’m willing to accept and keep testing

Dots have made me a much more consistent and accurate shooter.
But so has a ton of practice and trigger time with live fire.. pulling the trigger consistently and correctly is every bit as important as your aiming.

A trick I used to use is a laser and dry fire. It helped me in the beginning and helped my wife tremendously. (She’s a little too good of a shot, if you know what I mean…lol).
Keeping the laser on target through dry fire shows if you jerk, punch, dip, etc. Helps build memory via dry fire.
I shot competitive archery for years. I used a release. If you think you get a flier with a bullet, try an arrow at 20 yards…. That was great training for me for trigger discipline. Jerk, punch, pull the release in archery and you’re punished big time.

Carrying for 4 law enforcement agencies, 2 military branches and teaching CCW for permits starting in 1996, I am a big fan of lasers.

There is nothing faster and nothing better for training. We all learn to control the wobble factor when we use a laser. The best is green, you can see them in bright daylight. And you do not need to see the gun or the sights, only the dot and the target. You can do all firing from the hip if you want, nothing faster or more accurate.

The problem with lasers is they need to be button activated when you pull the trigger. The Crimson Trace I have on 4 SW wheel guns work great. But they are not found on semi autos. The make great ones for the 1911, just not most semis.

Dot sights are also great for failing eye, just slower into action. Really, in self defense, you should not be using sights as you normally will not have time. That said, anything that helps you shoot better is good. And they solve all of those eye problems.

 

[gdogs]

Personally, I like them, though I only have them on a few handguns. Don't have any on small handguns though, I'm not opposed to it mind you, I just don't have any that are cut for an optic.

 

[bph9]

Late last year stumbled across a deal on a used but LNIB optics ready Walther 4" PDP compact to good to pass up. Had a couple of red dots on hand meant for turkey guns and put one on the PDP.
First range session I was utterly astonished how well I shot but especially how easily I shot consistently good and how my fliers all but vanished. My average group size at 15 and 25 yards shrunk by over 50%.

I had been hearing for the last 2-3 years my most respected HG YT people absolutely raving how much better they shot once they transitioned to a red dot on their HGs had far fewer fliers and the red dot helped during dryfires show them their mistakes in shooting form.

The fact I shot so much better with a red dot is why I bought a PC 4" Shield Plus as my new EDC.
I figured I'd shoot better with a red dot, just not instantly better. I'm guessing I have been using red dots for so long on my turkey guns, AR's and 9mm carbines it crossed over to using them on my HG's.

Yes do what is best for you. I personally (having worked with electronics in industry for many years) and I do not trust any device that relies on a battery and also the electronics themselves are prone to break as well. They are fine for recreational shooting and probably some even want them for hunting with handguns but I would not trust one in a self defense situation. I also dislike the extra weight and bulk of such devices as often they are less concealable, of course depending on which of the millions of models you choose to buy, as I admit I have seen some very small ones.

I admit with my tired old eyes when I shoot recreationally in the winter indoors I do find that I average slightly better accuracy with an electronic sight. If I was to go back to hangund competition , yes I probably would use one depending on the particular competition.