How much are we knocking a FACTORY refinished antique revolver?

[Jaymo]

Mr. Jaymo, those guys at the shows buying guns are known as
alchemists. They degrade, buy and next week have a valuable gun of historic significance. An iron ingot to 24K gold. Beware.

I've noticed that. With the exception of my 66-1 snub and my 52-1, I've bought all of my S&Ws from two different gun/pawn shops with with I have a great relationship.
I'd like to get my 10-6 4" reblued at the factory, just because I'd like to have it as new again (finish-wise). Not for resale. Just because I'd like for it to look as good as it shoots (I call it Ugly Betty).
Same goes for my 586. It deserves to be as beautiful as it was from the factory.
I love a woman with freckles. Not so crazy about a gun with them.

I know. I could sell them and buy nicer ones.
HOWEVER, I can't get enough money out of them to do that, and I have other things I need the money for.
Plus, the 586 needs to go back to the factory for the recall.

And, they are both great shooters.
Better, the devil you know, than the witch you don't.
The replacements may have problems that show up when shooting.

I buy them to shoot. I can't afford to be a collector.
My only Smith with any real collector value is my 1965 52-1 that was all scratched up by the factory and sent to a certain organization to be given to a certain winning competitor at a certain BIG championship in '65.
Get yer tar and feathers fellas, I'm going to shoot that one. Already ordered and received 2,000 Speer HBWCs to load.
Who cares about Camp Perry, anyway?
Unless, I can sell it for enough to buy an equal condition 52-2.

 

[one eye joe]

Hey Joe, more than a kernel, more like the whole cob.

LOL, gmborkovic. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TONE DOWN MY REMARKS, SO AS TO NOT RUN FURTHER AFOUL OF THE POWERS THAT GOVERN THIS FORUM.......

 

[mm93]

Do the terms restored and refinished mean the same thing?
I have seen Ford refinished guns and Turnbulls restorations.
Not impressed. Would not buy one. Just my personal opinion. Dont take offense. There are to many nice, original guns out there for sale.

They can, but it depends on the level of each. A restoration doesn't always mean a gun looks like new when done. A restoration can be just mechanical, where a gun is put back in 100% working order. Or it can mean mechanical, and minor cosmetics such as small wood repairs to stocks. What I refer to as a "sympathetic restoration". This type of restoration is to make the gun work perfectly, but not do anything to make the gun look new again. It's to ensure the gun retains it's age, but repairs small cosmetic damage.
Refinishes aren't always the same, as some are doing very authentic refinishes, while others are simply making them look like new, but not like new as the factory did it. Any refinish that doesn't make the gun look exactly as it left the factory is unacceptable, and a waste of money for me. Best to leave it alone if the person doing the work doesn't know what finish to apply on certain parts.

 

[model3sw]

One of my main concerns on a Factory Refinished S&W ... especially OLDER refinish dates (I own MANY of them) is that an unscrupulous seller, somewhere up the line, may have it refinished AGAIN.

Not a tabu if it is disclosed but many try to pass off a poor refinish (over a factory refinish) as a "dated" factory finish.

Other than that, I'm just fine with a Factory Refinished S&W but I grade them by the amount of wear UNDER the refinish. For example, try to evaluate the condition of the gun prior to it being refinished.

Rust pocks that are finished over are a tabu to me. Rarely will you see that on a S&W refinish but you WILL see it. A RM in Nickel 3.5" LEO gun I owned, factory refurbished in the 1960s with the stocks off looked awful with rust pits nickeled over. With a set of Magnas on it, it looked fine.

 

[model3sw]

Schofield 1527 S&W Refurbished 7/58 (NO STAR)

Sometimes ... it just doesn't seem to matter regarding factory refinish / value concerns. I think it depends on "the" specific S&W model, the date the service was performed and current condition (both current and prior to refinish).

This one has no star in the serial number but is stamped 758 with a diamond B. I've had it over 25 years, the previous owner approximately 30 years.

One of the most magnificent Schofields I've ever seen or owned.

It's going to be hard to let it go, the day I decide to part with it.

Custom built case by Marvin Huey. Huey made brass oil bottle, Huey made custom craft screwdriver and an original cleaning rod.
See his home page: Pistol Cases - Huey Gun Cases


Photos by Mark Calzaretta "COLT_SAA" on the this forum.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Wow! That's an impressive package, Sal.

 

[gmborkovic]

Sal, in photo #3, what is that buggered up screw head? Is that for the trigger return or guard?

 

[model3sw]

Sal, in photo #3, what is that buggered up screw head? Is that for the trigger return or guard?

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to. please post a picture of a perfect, exemplar / comparative screw on one of your best Schofields.

 

[mm93]

Sal, in photo #3, what is that buggered up screw head? Is that for the trigger return or guard?

That is the upper trigger guard retainer screw. Holds the front edge of the trigger guard to the frame.

 

[model3sw]

That is the upper trigger guard retainer screw. Holds the front edge of the trigger guard to the frame.

That's just Mike, being Mike, throwing in a occasional razzie (the prepubescent equivalent to a whoopie cushion prank) and me tossing it back at him as graciously (and politely sarcastic) as possible

It's all in good fun. If Mike and I ever took each others' jokes seriously, it would end up being a showdown / duel of lawn darts at 20 paces. LOL.

 

[gmborkovic]

Sal, after all these years you have not forgiven me for that really funny
whoopie cushion incident. Mike

 

[RMFnLA]

Mr. Jaymo, those guys at the shows buying guns are known as
alchemists. They degrade, buy and next week have a valuable gun of historic significance. An iron ingot to 24K gold. Beware.

I always thought it was a matter of geography since it all depends which side of the table you are on.

 

[RMFnLA]

Restorations like Turnbulls often end up costing as much as or even more than an original gun.

I don't see them as real collectors as much as ways to get really nice shooters.

 

[DesmoEd]

Refinished antique pistols don't interest me, regardless of where and when it was performed.

Now something post 1900 like a triple lock would be ok I guess if it was done right.

Curious about the OP's statement regarding all US Schofields being refinished prior to 1900? Anyone have additional info?

Thanks, Ed

 

[iby]

Refinished antique pistols don't interest me, regardless of where and when it was performed.

Now something post 1900 like a triple lock would be ok I guess if it was done right.


Thanks, Ed

I agree with you regarding the antiques.
I also would like to have a Triple lock but I don't get the distinction between 1898 and 1908 for a refinish ??
Regards
Mike

 

[DesmoEd]

I agree with you regarding the antiques.
I also would like to have a Triple lock but I don't get the distinction between 1898 and 1908 for a refinish ??
Regards
Mike

Hey Mike,

thats easy, its the distinction between old west BP and modern smokeless

For me old west BP pistols chambered in say .44 American or .45 Schofield need to be wearing their original finish to be of any interest. Its part of their character and allure.

A triple lock in .44 Special, although barely post 1900, is hardly considered an old west firearm so I could tolerate a high quality refinish.

I have a well worn 1st Schofield that I'm proud to own in its current condition as it reflects its use throughout a very interesting time in our history

One exception to the above are the early Colt SAA's that were nickle plated by Adams at the distributor level back in the 1870's. Even those pistols, as nice as some are, will take a hit on value as they will letter from Colt as having shipped blue.

 

[DesmoEd]

But, how does one collect Schofields, for example. My understanding is that all. U.S.-marked specimens had been refurbished before the advent of the 20th Century.

Can you please provide additional info?

Thanks, Ed

 

[mrcvs]

The U.S. military deaccessioned stock and it primarily went to Schuyler, Hartley & Graham or Francis Bannerman & Co, both of New York. They were refurbished for civilian resale. I have been verbally told this by more than one very knowledgeable Smith & Wesson collector.

 

[DesmoEd]

The U.S. military deaccessioned stock and it primarily went to Schuyler, Hartley & Graham or Francis Bannerman & Co, both of New York. They were refurbished for civilian resale. I have been verbally told this by more than one very knowledgeable Smith & Wesson collector.

I do not think you have correct info. For one to state all US marked pistols were refinished upon release from military duty is much too broad a statement. What about the examples that were lost or liberated by their owners?

I went back and looked into the excellent S&W Collectors Handbook by Mr Neal and Mr Jinks. Regarding the surplus revolvers sold by Bannerman and SH&G they state: "to increase sales they had their gunsmiths cut the barrels to 5 inches, thus offering both 7 and 5 inch lengths. Since the Gov contract called for only blue guns, these firms had many of the Schofield contract guns nickle plated. Since these revolvers were in new condition and this refinishing required no polishing, these nickle models have the appearance of an original finish".

So if the guns that were nickel plated were in such new condition that they required no polishing why on earth would a distributor in the business of making money go to the trouble of refinishing blue pistols to be sold as surplus? Makes absolutely no sense.

I'd love to hear anyone else's take on the subject.

 

[rwsmith]

Is the end purpose....

...to shoot, store or display? Planning to sell later at a profit or keep in the family forever.