How much does the government know about the guns we own?

[P&R Fan]

I was discussing the challenges gun owners are facing with a friend today, and he was saying the government could confiscate all the "registered" guns. I told him guns are not registered, and he said yeah, but the government knows what we have. I said, yes, if it came from a dealer there is a record, but aren't those supposed to be destroyed? How long does the government keep records of gun purchases?
Jim

 

[danysw]

As far as I know (which is not too much) The FBI background record of a Gun purchase has to be destroyed in 72 hours but the FFL has to have the transaction record for at least 10 years, so it's easy for the government to go to all FFLs and find those records and have all the info.

 

[gdnagle]

As far as I know (which is not too much) The FBI background record of a Gun purchase has to be destroyed in 72 hours but the FFL has to have the transaction record for at least 10 years, so it's easy for the government to go to all FFLs and find those records and have all the info.

So if the FFL had a fire or breakin and their log got destroyed then there would be no records of their transactions? Seems like that would be too easy to lose their whereabouts

 

[Biginge]

Boys,

The bottom feeders in Washinton may just be bright enough to figure out if you buy a hunting license you may have a gun!!!!

 

[james56]

Check this out if you haven't already

Attorney General Secretly Granted Gov. Ability to Develop and Store Dossiers on Innocent Americans | Threat Level | Wired.com

They know!!!

In a secret government agreement granted without approval or debate from lawmakers, the U.S. attorney general recently gave the National Counter terrorism Center sweeping new powers to store dossiers on U.S. citizens, even if they are not suspected of a crime, according to a news report.

 

[nipster]

The call-in data is supposed to be destroyed in 72 hours, and does not contain any further in for than all of your contact info and the "type" of weapon purchased, IE: handgun, rifle, shotgun. Not make, not model, not serial. All that info is stored on form 4473, which the ATF does not get a copy of. That info is retained by the FFL until they relinquish their FFL. Then their records are supposed to be turned into the ATF.

Now... as far as ATF having other info, if you make multiple purchases of handguns, the FFL has to fill out form 3310, which DOES contain make, model, serial. I do not have info as far as how long these records are maintained.

But if you live in a state without mandatory registration and that allows unrecorded face to face sales, theoretically the government could not know you had any guns...

 

[ladder13]

If they didn't know what you had before, they sure will very shortly.They even know I'm posting this.

The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

 

[Poodle Soup]

They could just have the FBI come on to these gun forums trace you back to your providers and get your address from them. Just about every member of a gun forum more than likely has a firearm.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

I think the Gov't knows more than you want to believe. My family is Japanese(I'm half, aka a designer human ), they've been here for more than century and someone from every generation has served in one branch or another of the armed forces. A relative obtained all our family records from their WWII internment, it has records of bills, copies of letters mailed, travel records(from 1910 to 1930) to Japan, etc. In short.... its quite scary they amount of info compiled. It's also a little funny how my grandfather was ok'd to join the army, while his brother was classed as enemy alien stating he made a trip to Japan for a funeral in 1927, how'd they know?


Big brother is watching indeed.

 

[nickn10]

If they didn't know what you had before, they sure will very shortly.They even know I'm posting this.

The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

This!!!!!!!

 

[donniedee]

damn shame i sold ALL OF MINE at a garage sale several years ago _

 

[paulw350]

even though their not suppose to keep track of the nics check, im sure there is a database of every check run since the start of the background checks. the government has sometimes had trouble following the rules.

 

[Damn Yankee]

And just who is going to come and get the guns someone is supposedly to have?

 

[G.T. Smith]

I'm inspired!!!!

And just who is going to come and get the guns someone is supposedly to have?

Mr. Yankee,
I think you have just come up with the idea for a brand new reality show! You could call it Survivor America, and follow a group of folks driving a pink Prius, going door to door announcing that they are there to collect your firearms.. Probably be a short running series though.
Peace,
gordon

 

[Joewisc]

A government that knows what library books you borrow, which ours does, certainly know who legally bought a firearm. Don't be surprised if someday a confiscation order goes out. Maybe not in my lifetime -- I'm 70 -- but within the next 20 or so years I predict they'll be coming after your guns. History is filled with examples of governments -- mostly totalitarian, which ours is becoming -- that have taken firearms away from civilians. There's a good youtube video on this important lesson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZvdaHDw-hI&playnext=1&list=PL7AC7055DC5EFA198&feature=results_main
If ever there was a case for gun rights, it's this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAU9AJfttls

 

[nipster]

And just who is going to come and get the guns someone is supposedly to have?

It will be a bloodbath if it happens. There's more of us than there are of them.

 

[RabbitOne]

I am a retired manager of data base administration in financial data. The info below is what I saw in dealing with government agencies. I know how verification records work. Here is what happens.

I had to deal with and interact with all levels of U.S. government and its databases for many years. It is true that data that is used for verification or back ground checks only has a short active record life. This does not mean the verification or back ground check data goes away.

Typically verification data is archived or condensed in to a transaction record then sent to lower level storage in from 1 to 3 days. Only those records flagged by cross check programs or operators will say active for verification for a longer period of time. These databases are very large because they deal with all of the U.S. states and hold many types of records besides gun registrations.

Once a verification record goes to a transaction record in lower level storage it is gradually condensed further as time passes. Then using the government record rules for record life cycle the transaction record is moved to cheap bulk storage where it can sit indefinitely. For many types of financial transactions I processed 2 years was the maximum on low level storage before moving to bulk.

At any time using any criteria the federal government could go through low level storage using data base query programs and pull up all the guns you purchased in the last 2 years stored in low level storage. Going through 10 to 30 years of purchases would probably be done once or twice a month along with other requests unless it had a high priority.

State governments are much different. Many states keep full lists of purchases in sub-databases hooked to car registrations and are managed by state police units or their equivalent. These are kept for use by state and local law enforcement units. Many people are surprised to find out that states keep larger sets of information about individuals in general than the federal government. However, when you are flagged by the feds their files are ten times the size of a state file.

As far as I know today Feds are not interested in internet site records unless key words come up involving national security in their searches. But they do the track tons more on you. Yep. GPS from your phone, credit card usage, purchases through club cards… It's a long list. But most of the data today gets tossed because the volumes are so large.

If they tried to come after all our guns it would be a many years of effort. Anything congress passes of this magnitude would have to go through huge protests, countless individual court challenges since this is a constitutional amendment issue, challenges from states as to its implementation and individual back lash.

 

[TStick]

It will be a bloodbath if it happens. There's more of us than there are of them.

This, there were a bunch of gun grabbers killed after Katrina in New Orleans when the gun roundup started........


Oh wait.....

 

[E&J]

As I was explaining to a friend today, laws will be passed outlawing gun ownership and your neighbors will make a call and turn you in. The Gestapo will arrive and you will be arrested.
Good bye freedom.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

As I was explaining to a friend today, laws will be passed outlawing gun ownership and your neighbors will make a call and turn you in. The Gestapo will arrive and you will be arrested.
Good bye freedom.

I hope not, that will not happen...... at least not in any of our lifetimes.