How old is this powder?

[David LaPell]

I picked this up in my lot of stuff this week. Most of these containers are full. But I don't know how old they are. How can I tell if powder has gone bad? Should I use them or get rid of them?

 

[John R]

I would say mid 80's.

That powder is most likely as good today as it was the day it was made.

I have powder that was packaged before that, and I'm still using it.

 

[john traveler]

Those "old" cans of powder are almost certainly still good. I routinely load up ammo from powder 20 or more years old with NO problems.

If it makes you feel better, you can take a flashlight and look inside the cannisters for red dust, rusted metal bottom or top. If you get any of these conditions, you might have the start of deteriorated powder. If not, it is still good for reloading.

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, each can should have a lot number marked on it somewhere. I'd call or e-mail Alliant (the current manufacturer of those powders) with the lot numbers and ask them.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[G-ManBart]

If the container has been opened, I wouldn't use it. People have been known to pour powder into the wrong container after they're done loading a batch.

If you think it's 2400 and it's Bullseye....say goodbye to whatever gun you were using and maybe some flesh.

If it's sealed I'd use it if it didn't give off strong, unusual odors. Powder smells like....well, gunpowder and anything different will be pretty noticable. R,

 

[Paul5388]

That's the same packaging Hercules used until they sold out in the early 1990s. I'm using Bullseye right now in the same can as what you have pictured.

I also use Unique in this type of 1940s can.

2400 is a flattened flake that looks like a ball powder. Bullseye is a definite flake. A quick glance at the powder poured into a container would reveal contamination by those powders in the wrong container.

 

[David LaPell]

Well,I am not too worried about the Unique (still sealed and the old plastic stem wasn't cut open. I took a look inside both the other containers, and I poured out some of what was in each. Bullseye on the left, 2400 on the right. These look like what they are supposed to?

 

[n4zov]

Stop worrying about it. Load it and shoot it! I recently used some 4831 powder produced during WW2 and it is a LOT older than what you have.

 

[perrazi]

you are correct. that is what each powder looks like. if the powders give off a solvent type of smell, you should be good to go.

 

[MKT]

I agree with the others, that stuff is as new as the md '80's to early '90's. I too am still loading out of canisters of Bullseye and Unique that date the same as yours. Still shoot just fine.

Although, as my BE level is diminshing I dd buy a new canister. Now it is packaged in a black plastic bottle. Haven't cracked it yet.

 

[grendelbane]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane!

If stored properly, smokeless powder will outlast you. We really don't know how long it will last, because samples from 19th century production show no signs of deterioration.

Of course, we are talking about properly stored powder.

Black powder will last forever. Black powder, recovered from ship wrecks is still potent.

 

[uzisandfloozies]

smokeless powder will deteriorate with extreme heat. it will smell like ammonia, especially when fired.

i have bullseye in a similar cardboard container that i bought in the early 1990's that i still use. it's been in a cool basement, though.

 

[harry carey]

you didn't get an answer to your question. 1970's perhaps. some containers were used for a long time. the cardboard was used for a long time. the problem with this container is the top. the top funnel can pull out, leak etc. alliant has a help email person. you will need the lot number. I think this container was used for twenty years or more. you can check the various load manuals to approximate age. the labeling change on the card board can several times, i will check my old cans and get back to you. direct sunlight is the biggest problem.

 

[flash60601]

perrazi is on the right track, SMELL !

If the powders have a "solvent" (alcohol, either, acetone, etc) smell, they have not begun to deteriorate. It may smell to some people a little like black pepper, too - that's OK.

If you get an ACIDIC or SOUR smell, it is going. Those smells will be strong, right off. You WILL know.

Perrazi says an ammonia smell on firing - that is one of the very beginning things, but that can also be confusing, depending on the bulletlube (cast bullets) used. Some lubes produce truly wierd smells on firning, even with new powder.

Flash

 

[Paul5388]

I may have been off a few years on my estimation. Here's Alliant's time line on the product containers they and Hercules used back to the 1960s.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/general/about_us.aspx

According to that time line, it's 1980s production.

As powder begins to break down, it forms nitric acid, which is brown colored, like rust, and has a distinctive acid smell. There isn't any mistaking the smell of acids for organic solvents, i.e. ether, ketones and etc.

 

[Freischütz]

If you are concerned about the contents of the 2400 cannister, pretend it's Bullseye, and load a couple of rounds using starting Bullseye data. Your firing results will tell you the unknown powder's burning rate in relation to Bullseye. You can then employ the same methodology by using starting loads with Unique and Herco. This should give you the comfort level required to try the beginning 2400 data.

Although it deals with rifle loads, you might find Chapter 49 in Naramore's book interesting.

 

[G-ManBart]

Originally posted by David LaPell:
Well,I am not too worried about the Unique (still sealed and the old plastic stem wasn't cut open. I took a look inside both the other containers, and I poured out some of what was in each. Bullseye on the left, 2400 on the right. These look like what they are supposed to?

Yes, that's what they're supposed to look like. That doesn't mean that one or both aren't actually some other powder among the hundreds out there that look the same.

While it's another brand, you can't tell the difference between VV N350 and VV N105. I'm running 10.5gr of N105 in a particular cartridge. If I put 10.5gr of N350 in it, there is no doubt...it would cause a catastrophic failure and N350 isn't a terribly fast powder. I have both in my powder cabinet...and mixups like that have been known to happen. One of the well-known gun writers wrote about doing just that not long ago...maybe Dave Anderson?

Anybody that tells you to use powder from an unknown source in an opened container is giving you bad advice...but hey, it's free

Seriously, you're talking two pounds of powder (less since they're opened)...what's that...$40 you might save? False economy....

 

[BUFF]

Those containers are what those powders were packaged in when I began handloading in 1974-1975.

If you had Bullseye, Unique and -2400, you could load any handgun round properly!

 

[David LaPell]

I did get some interesting advice yesterday on these. That was to get some new 2400, and some new Bullseye, and to take and compare them with a bit of the old stuff with a magnifying glass. Thoughts on this?

 

[minconrevo]

I am very suspect of open powder containers. If I don't personally know the seller to be VERY careful, I will not use the powder for anything other than lawn fertilizer. The right powder in the wrong canister can equal personal property damage and/or injury; it's just not worth the high risk to save a few pennies.