Hunting guide killed by bear: client throws him a handgun

[ggibson511960]

What to Do??

I once fished Alaska in salmon country that was lousy with grizzlies. We saw them every day. Frightening beasts when they're fat with salmon. We fished from their centuries old worn trails around creeks. The head guide and outfitter, a grizzled veteran of Alaskan bear encounters, prohibited his guides from carrying bear spray or firearms. The guides kept their heads on swivels to avoid trouble. Asked to explain this policy the outfitter told tales of bear spray going off in bush planes. He had guided many polar bear and grizzly hunts and considered any weapon smaller than .375 H&H inadequate for hunting or safety. I'm not sure I would try this myself, but I felt safe in the company of savvy guides, even though they weren't totally comfortable with it. They had a lot of jokes about how to deal with an attack including wielding a broken fly rod as a spear or being faster than the slowest client.

 

[KalamazooKid]

This appears to be about the most detailed account of what happened as we are likely to get. This was truly a nightmare situation, and it looks like the guide performed admirably and did all he could to protect his client. It also appears that Game & Fish personnel made exactly the right decision in putting these two bears down. Killer griz never slowed charge | Environmental | jhnewsandguide.com

Wow, what chilling detail. Thanks for the link. Who knows how one would react when in the situation?

Surprised too that the sow was "only" 250 lbs - is that average for a griz sow? I spend time in black bear country where 250 lbs is only a "slightly above average" size (at least for a boar).

 

[yeti]

Sounds like it all went wrong for the guide and his client didn't save him. Uptain was unarmed (basically) going into a very dangerous situation and gave it his best.
An underweight 10yo sow AND a yearling attacking together with no warning/posturing is really odd. One grizzly attacking is over the top, I can't even imagine two!

Please don't "throw me" a gun. Rack it and try again.
I will forgive you if you hit me trying to end my mauling.

Prayers go out to the Uptain family.

 

[twodog max]

I once fished Alaska in salmon country that was lousy with grizzlies. We saw them every day. Frightening beasts when they're fat with salmon. We fished from their centuries old worn trails around creeks. The head guide and outfitter, a grizzled veteran of Alaskan bear encounters, prohibited his guides from carrying bear spray or firearms. The guides kept their heads on swivels to avoid trouble. Asked to explain this policy the outfitter told tales of bear spray going off in bush planes. He had guided many polar bear and grizzly hunts and considered any weapon smaller than .375 H&H inadequate for hunting or safety. I'm not sure I would try this myself, but I felt safe in the company of savvy guides, even though they weren't totally comfortable with it. They had a lot of jokes about how to deal with an attack including wielding a broken fly rod as a spear or being faster than the slowest client.

I would never fish with a guide as reckless with client safety as that guy. My experience with grizzlies is slight but I have have a long extensive experience hands on handling of several hundred black bears. Anyone that thinks they know what a wild animal of any sort much less something as dangerous as a grizzly is going to do is delusional. If he thinks it takes a 105mm howitzer to stop a grizzly then he dang well better have one on hand to use. A spinner bait makes real poor bear medicine and he should know better.
I know a salmon camp owner. Last time I asked he had killed 13 brown/grizzlies in his camp over the years acting aggressively. Not on the river in the camp! Alaska G&F has never chastised him over his actions.

Ridiculous and dangerous attitude IMO!

 

[Muss Muggins]

If I'm fightin' a bear and somebody throws me a pistol, I know who I'm shootin' first . . .

 

[Jst1mr]

Sounds like it all went wrong for the guide and his client didn't save him. Uptain was unarmed (basically) going into a very dangerous situation and gave it his best.
An underweight 10yo sow AND a yearling attacking together with no warning/posturing is really odd. One grizzly attacking is over the top, I can't even imagine two!

Please don't "throw me" a gun. Rack it and try again.
I will forgive you if you hit me trying to end my mauling.

Prayers go out to the Uptain family.

Thank heavens for a reasonable voice. The compassion should lie with the guide and the family he left behind.

Of course, most are quick to second guess the situation, and have an opinion based on knowing someone who saw a bear once...

Thousands of bears exist in proximity to humans...they are NOT "genetically programmed" to kill humans (seriously?)… if so they would find better hunting grounds (like the city!). Yet when an animal exhibits extreme and unusual behavior in attacking a human, there are those that question the need to euthanize the animal. If such a bear lived where these folks walk Bitsy daily, I guess they might sing a different tune. The urban canyon crowd may need to be reminded of what an apex predator actually is, and recognize that they live amongst many of those animals who seem most likely to kill humans how do you folks deal with a predator that gets in the habit of killing people?

 

[woodsltc]

Unfortunately, bears (and other predators) usually end up paying the price for simply being what they are. Never mind that human ignorance or inattentiveness to their surroundings are the catalysts that cause incidents like this one..

Predictable response. Seems there is a always a certain number of responders that always place blame on the human(s) that were mauled, killed and consumed by some wild animal. Seems it's always the humans fault for being in the animals habitat....well IMO humans are part of the ecosystem too, and have just as much right to enjoy hunting, fishing, hiking, trail running, etc...as any creature. These same responders always lament the putting down of the "poor" ole bear, gator, mountain lion etc..without any remorse for the human(s) that was killed. Seems to me that the armchair/goggle nature experts would benefit by spending some real-time in the wild.

Don

 

[Muss Muggins]

Predictable response. Seems there is a always a certain number of responders that always place blame on the human(s) that were mauled, killed and consumed by some wild animal. Seems it's always the humans fault for being in the animals habitat....

Kinda like blaming me for leaving a gun in my truck when a criminal steals it . . .

(apologies for the thread drift, but couldn't resist)

 

[Watchdog]

Humans have to show the bear who's the boss, even though the bear has absolutely no concept of right or wrong. No one has ever explained to a grizzly bear that humans are not food. The bear is doing what it's been genetically programmed to do for thousands of years. Unlike humans, the bear makes no excuses for what it is and what it does.

Thousands of bears exist in proximity to humans...they are NOT "genetically programmed" to kill humans (seriously?)…

Well, since you use the exact words I use back in Post #32, I figure you're talking about what I said.

Note that I do not say bears are genetically programmed to kill humans. They're programmed to kill anything they see as prey or as a threat, and they don't care if it's an elk calf, a mature elk, a ground squirrel, or a human.

Yet when an animal exhibits extreme and unusual behavior in attacking a human, there are those that question the need to euthanize the animal.

It's a fact that I've been known for sometimes questioning the need to kill the offending animal, and I've been mocked for doing so. I do seriously question it when the attack, fatal or non-fatal, is brought on by the stupidity or recklessness of humans when they're out in the wild. If you fail to act sensibly out in the wild, if you don't pay attention to what you're doing and where you are, it's the same as wearing a "Kick Me" sign on your back, except the sign says "Kill Me".

Apex predators (yes, I know what that means) are opportunistic killers. If you make it easy for them, there's nothing "extreme or unusual" about them attacking you.

 

[woodsltc]

If you fail to act sensibly out in the wild, if you don't pay attention to what you're doing and where you are, it's the same as wearing a "Kick Me" sign on your back, except the sign says "Kill Me".

Same as reminding folks in cities they should look both ways when crossing the street or they could be killed by a bus or taxi; lots of moving vehicles in cities and people get hit.......point is things happen in the wild also,and it's not always the fault of the human....& yes if an animal learns that it's easy to kill a human, then the offending animal needs to be put down.

BTW .... cute cartoon, but it doesn't really apply. Seems to just be mocking the hunting guides death.....again no remorse shown for the human.



Don

 

[Mr.Harry]

Watchdog, is it your position that these particular two people who got attacked were being stupid and/or reckless? I'm not sure I took that from the report. Seems a bit presumptuous and judgemental if so. But hey, whatever. And I guess there could be some wiggle room in what was reported, as to what level of precautions they took. Still...

On the other hand, (apologies for drift) we had a young guy get killed by a White Shark recently (second attack of the year, first fatality). It is MY position that anyone choosing to surf, or paddle board, or boogie board, or even just swim, off of beaches with a known presence of Great White sharks and the seals they are predating upon, IS in fact being stupid and/or reckless. Many (thousands who visit and recreate in the waters daily), would clearly disagree. And of course the state posts warnings and advice of "shark-smart" water recreation (kind of rings hollow, short of surfing with a bang stick, which of course you couldn't in MA ANYWAY, not that that would help anything if you COULD because it happens SO FAST); so I guess it's just a matter of perspective and opinion.

But WERE IT POSSIBLE to positively identify the attacking shark, I would still vote for putting it down.

 

[Wise_A]

Did the client's check clear?

Then I guess he doesn't owe that guy anything.

 

[Wise_A]

On the other hand, (apologies for drift) we had a young guy get killed by a White Shark recently (second attack of the year, first fatality). It is MY position that anyone choosing to surf, or paddle board, or boogie board, or even just swim, off of beaches with a known presence of Great White sharks and the seals they are predating upon, IS in fact being stupid and/or reckless.

Great White Sharks are actually really rare this far north. They had a bunch of sightings around July 4th, but compared to the number of animals in the waters where they're normally found, it's nothing.

You may as well say, "Never go into the water ever".

BTW .... cute cartoon, but it doesn't really apply. Seems to just be mocking the hunting guides death.....again no remorse shown for the human.

Never underestimate my ability to find humor in death. Particularly when it's someone I don't know or don't like. Almost like it's some kind of evolved coping mechanism!

Seriously. Let's try that guy that got bit by the shark. How embarrassing is it to have died boogieboarding? Ha!

Humans aren't evolved to care about very many people. This guy Dunbar claimed we can only relate to 150 people. Think about it--for millions of years, we lived in small social groups. In evolutionary terms, it's not super-smart to think of those people outside the group as being "people", because later we might have to kill them with spears and take their stuff.

10,000 years ago, we figured out how to live in cities. The first civilization popped up 5000 years ago. So if all of Homo sapiens 1.3-1.5m year history (we'll take the low number) was a calendar year, those first cities only appeared three days ago.

Now with televised news being what it is and social media popping up, it's somewhat silly to expect people to care about every single bad thing that happens to everyone.

So really--maybe don't high-road us all on this? I mean, not that I especially care, because in a very real sense, you're just not a real person to me. I'm already at my 150-person quota.

 

[steelslaver]

Bears are big in the local news here. Incidents like this and the Federal delisting as an endangered species and possible hunting of grizzlies.

The population has rebounded to a point where they are starting to drift out of their recent range and into more populated area. Most of the locals don't hate bears, but then again none of them really want a Grizzly setting up shop very close. Ranchers of course are not happy about them snacking on their livestock.

Yes, the bears have a right to live. Montana has a pretty good plan on how to keep a solid population of them in several connected zones. Montana has done a great job of managing our wildlife and should be allowed to do so. The idea that everything should be allowed to occupy its historical territories is ridiculous. Just flat to many humans for that. Not to many humans are volunteering to be part of the cut back on their numbers. Why is our area less valuable to us then some guy's area in San Francisco? I say plant 50 Grizzlies in the bay area. Its a traditional habitat for bears. Before someone goes on about the bears that lived their being extinct, please know that the wolves that are inhabiting parts of Montan are NOT the wolves that once lived here.

If I go into the zones that are established grizzly territory, then I am in their country and I need to be aware of that. When they wonder into other zones they are doing so at their peril and the fact that they can't read maps has nothing to do with it.

 

[star1]

I do feel extremely sorry for the guide and his family but what was he thinking of " Chubon went for a Glock that his guide had left with their gear a few yards uphill. " Why didn't he have the Glock in a holster on his person? Perhaps he was afraid it would fall out as he was cutting up the elk , seems like a holster with retention would prevent that. Very sad situation.

 

[Watchdog]

Watchdog, is it your position that these particular two people who got attacked were being stupid and/or reckless?

No, it is not. If you go back and read my comments in this thread, you won't find one that specifically refers to the two men involved in this incident. That's a fact that some people here choose to ignore. I do mention that I don't believe everything in the story told by the survivor, but that isn't commenting on any stupidity or recklessness on his part.

I'm not sure I took that from the report. Seems a bit presumptuous and judgemental if so.

I'll reiterate. No one has read here that I've "presumed" anything about the behavior or actions of these two men. Nor have I expressed any judgement or even an opinion on their behavior.

But hey, whatever. And I guess there could be some wiggle room in what was reported, as to what level of precautions they took.

I haven't commented on that either, simply because I have no knowledge of it.

As you say...whatever.