SLT223
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Hunting with a 29/629 vs Ruger Hawks
- Thread starter Triathloncoach
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OP
Triathloncoach
Member
Thank you all. Truth be told I'm basically a recoil whuss. I prefer shooting my guns suppressed, and outside. I said whuss. I just traded into a 4" Redhawk 44 mag and I own a Model 28. On occasion I shoot some turbo Buffalo Bore thru the 28. I haven't brought the Ruger to the range yet. I have a box of Winchester White box JHP.
I'm reading the Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo menus and their hard cast +P 44 mag intrigues me. I'd like to get a Model 29, but my revolver inventory isn't large and I'm leaning towards a Super Blackhawk for variety. I attached a partial write up from Buffalo Bore that explicitedly states NO Smith & Wesson's.
That made me curious as to how could there be such a difference.
I'm reading the Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo menus and their hard cast +P 44 mag intrigues me. I'd like to get a Model 29, but my revolver inventory isn't large and I'm leaning towards a Super Blackhawk for variety. I attached a partial write up from Buffalo Bore that explicitedly states NO Smith & Wesson's.
That made me curious as to how could there be such a difference.
Attachments
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muddocktor
Member
That Buffalo Bore ammo you attached their disclaimer on is actually loaded outside of SAAMI specs on pressure, Because there are no established numbers for a +P+ loading in 44 Mag. Instead of buying that to run in a 44 Mag pistol, I would rather upgrade to a hotter caliber such as a 454 Casull, 460 or 500.
hahaha! Enjoy! I didn't even read the specs but I imagine 300 plus grains going... I dunno. Have fun. Drop that grizz! Or 1000 lb hogzilla. Hey, one never knows. Whatever floats your boat.
Buffalo Bore's +P+ .44 Magnum is absurd. That is not because it will hurt guns or its power is not needed for big game hunting. At $41.77 plus shipping for 20, over $2 per shot, no one could afford to practice enough with them to be a get good over varying distances. Shooting handguns accurately enough to take big game is the challenge, not having the most ft. lbs. of energy to brag about.
I expect someone will post that ****ty accuracy out of their snub nose magnum is good enough for bear that are close enough to bite. Is it really that easy to hit a critical spot in a bear that suddenly appears charging at 25 mph?
I expect someone will post that ****ty accuracy out of their snub nose magnum is good enough for bear that are close enough to bite. Is it really that easy to hit a critical spot in a bear that suddenly appears charging at 25 mph?
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OP
Triathloncoach
Member
The Underwood Ammo is very popular on a 10MM Gun site. Alledgedly it more consistently lives up to the box label stats then BB, and its close to half the price as Buffalo Bore. I have some of both in various calibers. I do not spend nearly enough time at the range to accurately shoot anything with heavy recoil. New Years Resolution for 2018!
Well, depending on where I'm hunting and what I'm wearing usually decides the gun I carry! I don't pistol hunt, so my guns are backups to my rifles! If I am going a long distance, my rifle is usually in my backpack, which is designed to hold a rifle over my shoulder, I can get to it, but I need to reach over my shoulder and grab it by the butt, which I might have time to do, but I have found that in the woods you may not have even that much time to react. How I found this out is a story for another time! But, that said, if it is warm, I carry either my Ruger Alaskan 44mag or my S&W Backpacker IV. If it is cold, wet and nasty(basically I'm wearing a lot heavier coat/coveralls etc), I usually carry either my S&W Stealth Hunter in a shoulder/front rig (can adjust the rig with straps). Up to this point I haven't seen a need to go bigger than 44mag, but I will say that having the longer barrel is a plus for shooting say...25yds over the shorter barrels. I hunt where there is black bear, mountain lions and other critters with teeth and tusk so I wouldn't go any smaller! I have considered taking a 460..not because I need bigger, but because I LOVE the 460 round, but the noise!!! I would have to wear electronic hearing protection because it is painful to be anywhere in the vicinity of that round going off! But I do shoot them at near max, so maybe if I "toned it down" to say somewhere under 2000fps it would make the gun more viable...that or use 454's....but haven't gone there yet!
Bottom line though, if you reload, load to the recoil and accuracy that you are comfortable with. Might want to consider firing a shot or two off out doors without your ears on as well....
Bottom line though, if you reload, load to the recoil and accuracy that you are comfortable with. Might want to consider firing a shot or two off out doors without your ears on as well....
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cowboy4evr
Member
What's is interesting is that the 45 Colt will do what a 44 magnum does and do it with quite a bit less pressure . John Linebaugh , in his article " Dissolving the Myth " states that the difference is between 6000-10000 cup less pressure .
John Linebaugh has written quite an article about this ,even going into heavy bullets in the 45 , 300 grs and beyond . He has load data showing a 310 gr cast bullet doing over 1300fps at 30,000 cup . If you want something for " bigger game " . I believe that one would do it , instead of trying to " hotrod " the 44 magnum , IMO . Regards , Paul
John Linebaugh has written quite an article about this ,even going into heavy bullets in the 45 , 300 grs and beyond . He has load data showing a 310 gr cast bullet doing over 1300fps at 30,000 cup . If you want something for " bigger game " . I believe that one would do it , instead of trying to " hotrod " the 44 magnum , IMO . Regards , Paul
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
I wont say the exact over load I was using at the time in my ruger super black hawk but I had 12" of flames out of both sides of the cylinder and 15" of flame out the barrel. BBQ anyone. I didn't load too many of these.
But the SBH ate everyone. This was in the 70's no bigger bores were around. The 44 mag was the biggest at that time. We were talking at the LGS about how much higher we could load the SBH. Like I said I won't say but the SBH is one strong revolver. It's the quality of the steel that ruger is using. It's said they use steel from Carpenter Steel.
I loaded the 357 mag/ 125gr JHP to the limit specs by the book. It performed well in my Python and police service six. I calmed down through the years and found the 357/140gr JHP to be very accurate out to 100yds with a 6" barrel. It's a comfortable load to shoot using 2400 powder.
The 44 mag I used the 240gr JHP with 2400 powder but my ccw load is the Speer 200 gr JHP.
Hunting I perfer soft points. I butchered a bear and found a perfect 30 cal bullet in his butt. Someone hit him in the butt. Stupid hunters. I'm thinking the JHP won't penetrate deep like the SP does. That's another post.
I been hearing about the 44/300 JHP/ JHP bullets and the 45lc /300 gr JHP/JSP bullets. I been buying some every chance I get to reload them. I have a 10.5" SBH. My buddy swears by the leadcast 300gr bullets in his 444 marlin.
But the SBH ate everyone. This was in the 70's no bigger bores were around. The 44 mag was the biggest at that time. We were talking at the LGS about how much higher we could load the SBH. Like I said I won't say but the SBH is one strong revolver. It's the quality of the steel that ruger is using. It's said they use steel from Carpenter Steel.
I loaded the 357 mag/ 125gr JHP to the limit specs by the book. It performed well in my Python and police service six. I calmed down through the years and found the 357/140gr JHP to be very accurate out to 100yds with a 6" barrel. It's a comfortable load to shoot using 2400 powder.
The 44 mag I used the 240gr JHP with 2400 powder but my ccw load is the Speer 200 gr JHP.
Hunting I perfer soft points. I butchered a bear and found a perfect 30 cal bullet in his butt. Someone hit him in the butt. Stupid hunters. I'm thinking the JHP won't penetrate deep like the SP does. That's another post.
I been hearing about the 44/300 JHP/ JHP bullets and the 45lc /300 gr JHP/JSP bullets. I been buying some every chance I get to reload them. I have a 10.5" SBH. My buddy swears by the leadcast 300gr bullets in his 444 marlin.
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
Yup.....
Im a expert welder and I don't think I can fix that. It's a paper weight that tells a story.
I'm lucky I made it through my Tim Allen years were more power the better.
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
I fear nothing on this planet. But,,,,,
I got hung up in the thick pines once and what ever is was sounded like it was up rooting trees to get away from me. I had a 44mag side arm but if it came my way it was a 10' shot if that. I remember seeing the 30 cal bullet in the bears butt. I switched my 30-06 to a 338wm. I shouldn't of been in those thick pines. These bordered the apple orchard were fresh claw marks were found.
I got hung up in the thick pines once and what ever is was sounded like it was up rooting trees to get away from me. I had a 44mag side arm but if it came my way it was a 10' shot if that. I remember seeing the 30 cal bullet in the bears butt. I switched my 30-06 to a 338wm. I shouldn't of been in those thick pines. These bordered the apple orchard were fresh claw marks were found.
bigggbbruce
Member
Yup.....
Looks like one stuck in the pipe. No wonder it blew up.
RIDE-RED 350r
Member
Question for you more experienced hands: Can the Rugers REALLY safely digest a steady diet of loads over max SAAMI spec or is it that they are able to digest max SAAMI spec loads of heavy for caliber bullets???
I have only been reloading for about 4 years, but I know enough to know that increasing charge weight does not increase pressure on a linear scale, but that it goes up rather quickly once you reach a certain point. I can't understand why anyone but the most calculating and highly experienced reloaders would want to load above and beyond safe published load levels unless one has the equipment to test actual pressures that are produced.
I agree with the posts that recommend a more powerful cartridge rather than playing around in the red-zone with handloads in a 44 mag no matter what brand the revolver is.
But then again, the OP admitted to being a "recoil wuss" (and nothing wrong with admitting that BTW) so why pursue these types of loads in the first place?
My first recommendation would be a S&W 460. He can warm up to recoil using stout (Ruger spec) 45 Colt loads, which I would expect to be easy shooters from an X-frame. Then move up to 454 Casulls, and if that still isn't enough run legit 460 Mag loads. If the X-frame is just too big and bulky, a 454 chambered Ruger would do everything he is looking to do in a smaller package, but will be more punishing to shoot running legit 454 loads due to the smaller/lighter package.
I own a 460V and have fired nothing but legit 460 loads from it. Stout, yes. But not impossible to manage. I can print paper plate size groups at 50yds with it, no optics, just open sights. It DOES get to you after 15 or 20 rounds though.
I have only been reloading for about 4 years, but I know enough to know that increasing charge weight does not increase pressure on a linear scale, but that it goes up rather quickly once you reach a certain point. I can't understand why anyone but the most calculating and highly experienced reloaders would want to load above and beyond safe published load levels unless one has the equipment to test actual pressures that are produced.
I agree with the posts that recommend a more powerful cartridge rather than playing around in the red-zone with handloads in a 44 mag no matter what brand the revolver is.
But then again, the OP admitted to being a "recoil wuss" (and nothing wrong with admitting that BTW) so why pursue these types of loads in the first place?
My first recommendation would be a S&W 460. He can warm up to recoil using stout (Ruger spec) 45 Colt loads, which I would expect to be easy shooters from an X-frame. Then move up to 454 Casulls, and if that still isn't enough run legit 460 Mag loads. If the X-frame is just too big and bulky, a 454 chambered Ruger would do everything he is looking to do in a smaller package, but will be more punishing to shoot running legit 454 loads due to the smaller/lighter package.
I own a 460V and have fired nothing but legit 460 loads from it. Stout, yes. But not impossible to manage. I can print paper plate size groups at 50yds with it, no optics, just open sights. It DOES get to you after 15 or 20 rounds though.
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
Afraid of bigfoot no way. Never.
OP
Triathloncoach
Member
FOLLOW-UP. I guess I was kinda sorta looking for a reason why I had to buy a Blackhawk when I really wanted a 29. My Redhawk will have to do. Today I bought M Conrads 29-5. 
. I have a bunch of Evil Black Rifles. Photo - some have gone, some have arrived since. I sold many of my handguns last year anticipating the Hildabeast as President. Now I have a few Glock 19s, a 5906TSW the Redhawk, Mod 28-2, 29-5, badly reblued 17-2. And a wife who asks no questions.
. I have a bunch of Evil Black Rifles. Photo - some have gone, some have arrived since. I sold many of my handguns last year anticipating the Hildabeast as President. Now I have a few Glock 19s, a 5906TSW the Redhawk, Mod 28-2, 29-5, badly reblued 17-2. And a wife who asks no questions.Attachments
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twodog max
Member
As I have gotten older and hopefully somewhat smarter i figured out that the need for wrist breaker handgun loads has mostly evaporated. I load for power enough but accuracy and comfort for extended shooting are more important these days. If I need more power than these loads give, has not ever happened, I will get a rifle out.
The belief that the Redhawk platform is stronger the the S&W N frames has been out there since the Redhawks were introduced. To my knowledge this has never been tested in a controlled situation. I have to wonder if this may be fact or myth. If anyone knows of any testing tell me of it. I have seen plenty of pictures of blown up Redhawks also so they are not idiot proof.
The belief that the Redhawk platform is stronger the the S&W N frames has been out there since the Redhawks were introduced. To my knowledge this has never been tested in a controlled situation. I have to wonder if this may be fact or myth. If anyone knows of any testing tell me of it. I have seen plenty of pictures of blown up Redhawks also so they are not idiot proof.
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