I be waiting to see how this california thing with the electrishikal cars works out

[LVSteve]

Its no problem, Everything will be fine. The folks who set up the factories paid for by tax credits will make tons of money and when the problems come around those same taxpayers who paid for the manufacturing facilities in the first place will pay to clean up the mess. Everything will be normal,

Exactly my prediction for the Raiders' stadium in Vegas.

 

[delcrossv]

A look at the numbers

EV's will remain a rich man's toy or virtue signaling device.

We're pushing the limits of electrochemistry and absent a whole new way to store electricity, that no one has even conceived of, we'll only see minor improvements.

Nice try, but they pulled the trigger about 100 years too soon.

Li Ion battery: ~400 Wh/L
Gasoline: 9,700 Wh/L

Ya ain't gonna see a factor of 20 improvement any time soon- if ever.

Just for giggles-
Cubane: 93,761.24 Wh/L
U 235 : 417,000,000,000 Wh/L

 

[WR Moore]

If you make even a modest attempt to verify this you'll find it's false.

While it (battery farm equipment) may be false, the concept doesn't seem to have dawned upon many who are ecstatic about the coming end of fossil fuels. They also don't seem to have grasped that even electric vehicles need lubrication.

I noticed a post from a gent with limited electrical service who doesn't "have room for more circuits". You can always upgrade your entrance panel to have more circuits. If necessary, you can also upgrade the electrical service to the house. Depending upon your current & desired load rating, this could include higher amp rating wiring to the entrance panel and a new meter box. Might even increase resale value if your house is somewhat "dated".

OTOH, if you're looking for an excuse to keep burning dead dinosaur, you've got one.

 

[Grayfox]

 

[johngalt]

And Minnesota, though a variant.
In the MN case, they were sober enough to at least touch upon cold weather performance issues. That's going to be a big ole fly in the ointment

The last I heard, Walz says the CA ban doesn't apply.

 

[venomballistics]

The last I heard, Walz says the CA ban doesn't apply.

Correct, they are taking winter conditions into account while they draft their own version of the same thing.
There's not much rational thought to be found in the legislative segment of this issue.

 

[Wdbutcher97]

John, I think that has gotta be a hybrid. Probably an early Prius.

I think Toyota's first mass produced all electric vehicle debuted this year, 2022. The Prius, in Japan since 1997 and in the US since 2001, per Wikipedia, is an excellent (if singularly unexciting) car. I have a 2012 in Japan that has never given me any trouble whatsoever. If all you want is reliable and inexpensive transportation, they're great.

Toyota has the hybrid engine figured out, for sure.

The company I work for purchased a Toyota Prius in 2002. It was used for an airport shuttle vehicle for years until it was decided that with 150,000 miles on it that it should only be used for in town trips. At some point my company decided that the Prius could be used for other projects, but they wanted to have Toyota check it out first. On it's way to our closest Toyota dealer which is 60 miles away, it died. It was hauled to the Toyota dealer where they found the the batteries needed to be replaced. Most people would have gotten an estimate and retired this 20 year old Prius, but not us, we decided to replace the batteries. We put $7000 into a vehicle that KBB says is worth maybe $3800. The company I work for isn't known for spending money wisely.

 

[IAM Rand]

If you need to go on a road trip, you can rent a gas vehicle.

It's the same as the pickup argument. There are many people on here who will tell you they have to own a pickup in the same way they need lungs to breathe. I disagree.

AGREE to disagree. 1st, at you alluded to, COVID has screwed things up and renting can be a crazy expensive cost. As is, people may still have to rent if they fly. In addition, the cost of gas will be the cost of gas, if you rent then you have the cost of the rental in addition to the cost of the gas. Even if you rent a more fuel efficient vehicle it may not make up for the rental fees.

2nd, I bought a pickup. I am not the person that has "to own a pickup in the same way they need lungs to breathe" person BUT..... I did 2 things I said I would never do when I bought a pickup, 1 buy a pickup and 2 buy a Ford. I do not regret this purchase in any way shape or form. It almost makes me regret not getting one sooner. I violate 2 of your rules. Buying a pickup and using that pickup for road trips.

EV's are good for people that use them for local driving only. They are not practical for long trips. Having to stop every 200-300 miles is ridiculous. AND that is if you don't have to use the heater or AC and don't put the petal to the metal. If I drive 70-75mph I can go 800+ miles on one take of gas. I will be several states over while an EV owner is still charging in the same state.

Problem is that we can and should do an all of the above approach. Unfortunately there is half the country that wants to go back to horse and wagon.........Oh wait, the horse farts so we can't have that

 

[LVSteve]

The company I work for purchased a Toyota Prius in 2002. It was used for an airport shuttle vehicle for years until it was decided that with 150,000 miles on it that it should only be used for in town trips. At some point my company decided that the Prius could be used for other projects, but they wanted to have Toyota check it out first. On it's way to our closest Toyota dealer which is 60 miles away, it died. It was hauled to the Toyota dealer where they found the the batteries needed to be replaced. Most people would have gotten an estimate and retired this 20 year old Prius, but not us, we decided to replace the batteries. We put $7000 into a vehicle that KBB says is worth maybe $3800. The company I work for isn't known for spending money wisely.

If the gas motor and suspension were still good, then the company got a refurbished vehicle for $7000. A new one with similar capabilities would probably cost $27,000. There may even be a tax write-off advantage to a $7k repair rather than the multi-year depreciation of a new vehicle. Maybe the bean counters weren't so dumb.

Also, you had a Prius that has lasted 150k miles. When they first came out many said they wouldn't make it to 50k. Says a lot about Toyota's engineering.

 

[ladder13]

No obit for fossil fuels.

The U.K. has lifted its fracking ban, digging up a long-running debate

 

[johngalt]

If the gas motor and suspension were still good, then the company got a refurbished vehicle for $7000. A new one with similar capabilities would probably cost $27,000. There may even be a tax write-off advantage to a $7k repair rather than the multi-year depreciation of a new vehicle. Maybe the bean counters weren't so dumb.

Also, you had a Prius that has lasted 150k miles. When they first came out many said they wouldn't make it to 50k. Says a lot about Toyota's engineering.

I see this a lot argument made a lot. Repair cost vs book value shouldn't be the equation, but repair cost vs replacement cost.

I guess I shouldn't post what I've spent keeping my '97 Tahoe running the last 10 years...

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

The company I work for purchased a Toyota Prius in 2002. It was used for an airport shuttle vehicle for years until it was decided that with 150,000 miles on it that it should only be used for in town trips. At some point my company decided that the Prius could be used for other projects, but they wanted to have Toyota check it out first. On it's way to our closest Toyota dealer which is 60 miles away, it died. It was hauled to the Toyota dealer where they found the the batteries needed to be replaced. Most people would have gotten an estimate and retired this 20 year old Prius, but not us, we decided to replace the batteries. We put $7000 into a vehicle that KBB says is worth maybe $3800. The company I work for isn't known for spending money wisely.

I disagree. For the use you describe $7000 spent vs paying $30,000-$40,000 for a new vehicle to do the same thing is a no brainer. You are buying a tool.

 

[Kinman]

We can complain all day long but I believe were facing the future. Ive seen some fairly amazing electrical conversions for those of us that want to keep our classic car appearance. Face it...the modern cars are so restricted by standards of mileage, noise, etc. that they all look the same...electric cars do not require a radiator up front so the look is gone, look at Teslas and the rest. The big push to install solar panels on your roof has much to do with electrical vehicles in your garage, new solar panels are good enough to almost work in the dark, drawing energy enough to nearly run a home with restrictions to air conditioning, etc. on a cloudy day. We can accept the coming future or reject it and complain about "The good old days." As a antique car enthusiast with no interest in modernizing my '29 Model A Ford any more than a six volt alternator and electronic ignition I'm in it for the long haul, the braking system will not support the increased speed of an electric motor, take away the four banger and non synchro transmission and I might as well go electric and am looking forward to something on the order of a four wheel drive V.W. bus with some kind of character.