cybermgk
US Veteran
Or forced evolution, to justify/fit in with a particular Ideological narrative.
I hate language evolution....
- Thread starter rwsmith
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Or forced evolution, to justify/fit in with a particular Ideological narrative.
When I'm in Texas, I speak Texan. Takes me about a day to pick it up again. The whole dadgum family is from Texas, I escaped.
The Beowulf poet, The Bard and Geoffrey Chaucer would think today that we all speak with our mouths full of treacle.
BearBio
Member
"I'm not laughing with you==I AM laughing AT YOU!" (usually in criticism of someone's driving).
My pet peeve is use of the term "Data"==it is PLURAL. The "data are....."; "the data show....."==NOT "the data shows..."
The singular is "datum" or "datum point".
My pet peeve is use of the term "Data"==it is PLURAL. The "data are....."; "the data show....."==NOT "the data shows..."
The singular is "datum" or "datum point".
cybermgk
US Veteran
Inusuit
Member
Read Chaucer. You will be thankful for the evolution of language.
Languages evolve, but I don't want my English to evolve because of something that is repeated to the point that it becomes accepted.
Watching news or reading paper they are interviewing witnesses:
"I seen him coming down the road"
"We seen him hit the kid on the bicycle"
I hear/read this every time there is a witness interview. I can't remember when the last time I heard "I saw him" or "We saw him"
Some changes are ok, but the ones I don't like are not ok.
Poor grammar is not language Evolution.
It is language DEvolution.
BearBio
Member
Use it singular and submit a scientific paper..........
Besides: First definition/usage in a dictionary is usually the preferred one.
UncleEd
Member
"I seen the big man shoot the little man."
"I seen the kid steal the candy."
"I seen those two beat up that one."
These quotes are among the reasons
police report seens of the crimes.
"I seen the kid steal the candy."
"I seen those two beat up that one."
These quotes are among the reasons
police report seens of the crimes.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Well, possibly. But nit picking, or nit-picking, or nitpicking (that's how most noun-verb compounds evolved), in other words, picking semantic nits, is different from just plain incorrect grammar or spelling.
Something else that has gotten mixed up in this thread is the change in language over time, as from the way Shakespeare wrote to the way we write, and the differences between the various "social variants" of language.
Many of the examples quoted by earlier posters here have nothing to do with evolution of the language, they are simply slang and dialects of regional and social origin that have always existed.
Obviously, we don't have sound recordings, but I bet the language and grammar among the "common people" in Shakespeare's time was just as mutilated and profanity-laden as today.
BearBio
Member
I had to read Beowulf in Old English in college lit. Easier to use my German!
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I've read letters and books from long ago. It appears that if you got a moderately decent education back then, you also managed to acquire a much more extensive vocabulary than you'd expect. Or there was someone available as a scribe who was.
Yeah, there are exceptions, Patton's letters boggle the mind. While bright and articulate, he had issues writing.
Yeah, there are exceptions, Patton's letters boggle the mind. While bright and articulate, he had issues writing.
BTW, you cannot "utter" on the keypad, as utterings require sound.[/QUOTE]
Actually "utter" doesn't require sound. One can "utter" a forged document, currency, or prescription by presenting it as authentic.
Actually "utter" doesn't require sound. One can "utter" a forged document, currency, or prescription by presenting it as authentic.
Each to his own. This is a somewhat uneducated, or perhaps just informal, way of speaking. It bothers me not. The things that irritate me are the journalism students who say "Aren't I the penultimate grammarian?" or "When they saw Tiffany and I at the epicenter of the crowd . . . ."Languages evolve, but I don't want my English to evolve because of something that is repeated to the point that it becomes accepted.
Watching news or reading paper they are interviewing witnesses:
"I seen him coming down the road"
"We seen him hit the kid on the bicycle"
I hear/read this every time there is a witness interview. I can't remember when the last time I heard "I saw him" or "We saw him"
Some changes are ok, but the ones I don't like are not ok.
One is a lapse in grammar, which is hardly a moral shortcoming. The other is a demonstration of the lack of superiority which the speaker presumes over his or her audience.
Obvious difference. Capisce?
OP
I'm not a snob.....
I can take all kinds of localisms or attempts at English. When I was working I was something of a laison between people that hard time understanding each other or people that were difficult to work with.
Was explaining to a pipefitter what we needed and the engineer was there. I explained how I wanted the pipe angled and the pipefitted said. "Oh, you want it on there cattywhompus." I said yeah, that's what we want." The engineer had never heard that and he was chuckling about it for years.
I can take all kinds of localisms or attempts at English. When I was working I was something of a laison between people that hard time understanding each other or people that were difficult to work with.
Was explaining to a pipefitter what we needed and the engineer was there. I explained how I wanted the pipe angled and the pipefitted said. "Oh, you want it on there cattywhompus." I said yeah, that's what we want." The engineer had never heard that and he was chuckling about it for years.
OP
It's true that some people......
...don't want to sound 'high falutin'' by using correct English or they just don't care so they stick with the common.
...don't want to sound 'high falutin'' by using correct English or they just don't care so they stick with the common.
OP
I've heard Chaucer recited...
I don't remember what the guy's qualifications were but it sounded kind of like Gaelic, which in it's purest form is as indecipherable as anything, except maybe Chinese.
I was looking up the origin of the name 'Cutty Sark' and it turns out Robert Burns wrote about a beautiful witch that had been given a 'sark' (a short night dress) that she still wore but had WAY outgrown so it was 'cutty' (short). Tam O' Shanter came across the witches dancing in the forest and he got an eyeful and shouted at her. She chased him, but was only able to catch the tail of his horse and a handful of horse hair.
I don't remember what the guy's qualifications were but it sounded kind of like Gaelic, which in it's purest form is as indecipherable as anything, except maybe Chinese.
I was looking up the origin of the name 'Cutty Sark' and it turns out Robert Burns wrote about a beautiful witch that had been given a 'sark' (a short night dress) that she still wore but had WAY outgrown so it was 'cutty' (short). Tam O' Shanter came across the witches dancing in the forest and he got an eyeful and shouted at her. She chased him, but was only able to catch the tail of his horse and a handful of horse hair.
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625-7
Member
Sister Mary Yardstick instilled proper grammer and spelling in my being. As much as it irritates me I will not troll correct such infractions in this forum lest I upset the big gorilla.
chaparrito
Member
Love this. Depending on emphasis, the following sentence has 7 different meanings:
I never said she stole my money.
Somebody else may have said it, but I never did.
I never accused her of stealing my money.
Although she stole my money, I never said a word.
Somebody stole my money, but it wasn't her.
Maybe she borrowed it.
I said she stole someone else's.
She stole something else.
I never said she stole my money.
Somebody else may have said it, but I never did.
I never accused her of stealing my money.
Although she stole my money, I never said a word.
Somebody stole my money, but it wasn't her.
Maybe she borrowed it.
I said she stole someone else's.
She stole something else.
BearBio
Member
"I don't remember what the guy's qualifications were but it sounded kind of like Gaelic, which in it's purest form is as indecipherable as anything, except maybe Chinese."
Gaelic is a Scotch language. Irish is often erroneously referred to as Gaelic or Irish Gaelic. Technically, it is Gaelge or, sometimes, Gaelige. Gaelic is not bad=just different rules than English. The third Gaelic language is Manse, from the Isle of Man==totally different from the other two. Now, Welsh or Cornish? That is very similar to the Polar dialect from Mars.
Labhraíonn mé roinnt Gaeilge
Gaelic is a Scotch language. Irish is often erroneously referred to as Gaelic or Irish Gaelic. Technically, it is Gaelge or, sometimes, Gaelige. Gaelic is not bad=just different rules than English. The third Gaelic language is Manse, from the Isle of Man==totally different from the other two. Now, Welsh or Cornish? That is very similar to the Polar dialect from Mars.
Labhraíonn mé roinnt Gaeilge
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Excellent example. I used this one for years as a corporate trainer. My job was to instruct college graduates how to properly present themselves in written and verbal form in an effort to represent our company in an acceptable manner.
I experienced a fair amount of frustration.
My experience an hour ago was novel. I was my LGS target range and upon exiting into the showroom to leave the premises a fellow I sold a gun to last year was there. He asked me: "what's up." I replied that up is the opposite of down. Then I told him I hoped things were going well for him and said goodbye. At least he did not ask me wass up.
Chubbo
Member
After reading the posts by the learned people on this forum, I greatly admire their their knowledge of the English language, but it really makes me aware of my lack of knowledge concerning it. I am almost ashamed to make a post. This will probably result in the wearing out, of my old fashion spell checker.
Chubbo
Chubbo
NewToGuns17
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"Those ones" kills me... them, those, these two... not those ones.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
And for anyone who wants to know just why you're correct (from "Ask the English Teacher"):
The problem is with the number. You can say "This one," and "These two." If the number is uncertain, you can use "ones" in certain ways:
"Bring me four potatoes."
"Which ones?" [particular potatoes from a larger group]
"Those four in the bowl."
"These four?"
"No, they're too small. Try the ones in the cupboard." [the uncertain number of potatoes in the cupboard]
"Are these OK?" [we know how many are wanted]
"Those are perfect."
All clear, yes?
"Should have," not "should of."
On the other hand, I recently learned that stuff that teachers pilloried me for in school (for example, beginning a sentence with a conjunction) was never considered improper by the recognized experts. And don't get me started on the Oxford comma.
On the other hand, I recently learned that stuff that teachers pilloried me for in school (for example, beginning a sentence with a conjunction) was never considered improper by the recognized experts. And don't get me started on the Oxford comma.
His real faus pax was forgetting "Doc."
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
But that can be worth a lot of money, like 5 million bucks ....
Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5 Million - The New York Times
From what I can see you do quite well.
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