I hit a point on 1911s with roll your own

[Filo McShoe]

1st let me state I'm not an expert (don't even play one on TV or the internet) and for sure am not a pistolsmith.
For years I was an avid shooter at various matches of no particular renown. Issue is and was I shoot left handed so some out of the box guns didn't work for me period and other without at least putting on an ambidextrous safety, along with improving the trigger pull, and usually some better sights. These issues along with finding a holster that worked kind of limited choices.
When I started going to semi autos in the 70s the 1911 was the gun de jour and that's what I went with. Over time I got tired of buying a new gun taking off parts and replacing them. So read up on 1911 builds and figured that was the way to go. Over time and builds that choice has proven to be both right and wrong depending on how the end product comes out.
So anyway I've retired from shooting matches with some health issues and for the most part going to the range, I can shoot in my backyard so I still plink. I had a back problem that pretty much made me a home body for a while and was going stir crazy so found a bunch of old smaller 1911 parts said I'll do one last build and use this stuff up.
Turns out that wasn't as cheap a date as it use to be. Paid more for a frame, slide, and barrel than I ever had in the past, plus found out the old parts weren't all that good which was why I had not used them earlier so I ended up buying about everything.
Got a stainless Foster frame, an old IMI National match slide, and a Kart barrel. One of the 1st problems that slide had a different rear sight cut than I had ever seen, turned out to be a Caspian Rollo dove tail and the slide had to be drilled and tapped for the elevation screw.
Slide to the frame as a long ongoing mess because all I had for a vice at the house was a Black and Decker wood workmate, we're off to a bad start. Barrel to the slide fit went OK got things all together and the gun shot and cycled fine.
Problem now is I'm still on house arrest more free time than I can stand so I order more stuff and do a 2nd build.
This time get a ramped stainless Foster frame, a bald Israeli hard slide, and a ramped Para barrel. This time things went a lot smoother on the frame to slide fit. One of the guys I use to work with lowered the ejection port and cut cocking serrations on the slide for me I bought some dovetail cutters and another buddy milled the slide for the adjustable Sig sights I'd picked up for $30.00. Had to take the frame down and have it milled inside to 31.5 degrees for the ramp and all that went pretty well.
Last thing that kicked my tail on that build was the frame's slot for the sear spring was too narrow. I couldn't get the gun to work right 100% on firing (worked then didn't work) and was completely baffled. Went to reading about any and all 1911 issues and finally to a wild guess that was the problem and shaved the sides of the sear spring to wa la it worked.
I'm in my mid 60s so in my book I'm done with 1911 builds. Gave one to my son and keeping the other but if you get a wild hare have fun.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

My last 1911 build was about 1990. Thompson-Auto Ordnance offered their 1911 pistol in kit form. LE price was nice, at about $160. Put together a decent shooter. Only significant changes I made were adjustable sights, extended thumb safety, long trigger, and a flat mainspring housing. Did the slide-to-frame fitting in a heavy bench vise, peened the rails and stoned to final fit. Polished the sear engagement. Polished the feed ramp.

That pistol went away in a trade deal several years later. Probably couldn't do another one for triple the money I spent back then.

Prior to that I did one of the Essex kits, about 1979 or so. New Essex frame with full set of USGI parts (slide, barrel, all internals, etc). IIRC the kit price was about $80 or so. Used it as my "truck gun" for several years, then it also got away in a trade. Today that original Colt GI M1911A-1 slide, barrel, and internals would probably bring several hundred on the collector market.

 

[BE Mike]

I did a build on a Vega slide and frame many years ago. It turned out pretty good. I was wanting a stainless 1911 and they weren't available. I used a S&W barrel. My question would be, Why would you want to go to all the trouble of building a 1911 and put a questionable (accuracy wise) barrel in it?

 

[Filo McShoe]

On the subject of 1911 barrels no 2 people ever seem to think alike on what's good, bad, or best.
What I think of as my most questionable build for a "Pin Gun" I used a very cheap compensated Roto barrel from Sarco. Wasn't great but would hit the pins. A friend that's big into 1911s loaded me 5 shots to fire lap / hone it with after that it would shoot fairly respectable groups for a $50/60 barrel.
Sadly even in my good days I don't think I ever owned or built a gun that wouldn't out shoot me so from my stand point there's a cut off on what's useful accuracy. I'm sure there are a lot of shooters whose cut off is higher than mine so let them spend more time and money on the barrel.

 

[CelticSire]

"Build a 1911" they said. "It will be fun" they said. "You'll save money" they said. They lied. But, I learned a LOT about 1911s.

Caspian frame, Essex Enhanced slide, mixture of Ed Brown and Chip McCormack internals, Pachmayr slide stop, Colt National Match barrel, Smith and Alexander magazine well, Bo-Mar rear sight, Ashley Express Big Dot front sight, Altamont grip panels. It shoots better than I can.

 

[colt_saa]

"Build a 1911" they said. "It will be fun" they said. "You'll save money" they said. They lied. But, I learned a LOT about 1911s.

Caspian frame, Essex Enhanced slide, mixture of Ed Brown and Chip McCormack internals, Pachmayr slide stop, Colt National Match barrel, Smith and Alexander magazine well, Bo-Mar rear sight, Ashley Express Big Dot front sight, Altamont grip panels. It shoots better than I can.

Are you sure that is a Caspian frame? It looks more like a older Safari Arms frame.

Did Caspian buy Safari Arms?

 

[Filo McShoe]

yeah that looks like a nice Safari Arms frame, used one on what was my best build. should have kept that gun.
while subject to be wrong I thought Olympic Arms bought them up.
CelticSire nice work and good looking piece.

 

[BigBill]

After I educated myself on 1911’s I was ready to do a refurbish on one. I wanted to see how accurate I could make it using bargain basement parts.
A $59 USGI military surplus barrel. A $15 nm barrel bushing, A $9 full length guide rod kit w/18# recoil spring. A $12 adjustable trigger. I did all the fitting. I did a disconnector ramp and polished the feed ramp. I fitted the nm barrel bushing for 100% lock up with no barrel spring in either direction. I lapped the barrel to the bushing.

Test fire,,

At 25 yds, using Russian wolf 45 acp Ball ammo she shoots cloverleafs and clusters no problem.

I left the frame rail to slide fit alone. It’s a tad loose in the front in full battery. But it’s possibly slide spread. The frame rails mic even front to rear. I have the tools to work on the 1911 from brownells.

 

[Trooperdan]

I'm lucky enough to live close to Montgomery College in Troy NC, they are one of I believe four colleges that host the NRA summer gunsmithing classes. I have twice built a totally custom 1911 under the guidance of Bob marvel, one of the very top pistolsmiths in the country. I used all Nighthawk Custom parts in both. The classes were two weeks in length, 8+ hour days. Bob also teaches this course on his own at Deep River Customs in Ashville NC but at a fee of $4,000. The $400 community college class isn't taught by him any more but they do have very excellent instructors.
I'm no machinist nor a gunsmith and honestly, much of the knowledge passed in this course was so far above me that it was wasted. But I did wind up with two fantastically reliable and accurate stainless 1911's!

 

[BigBill]

That’s the way to go. I’m 67yo with a mechanic, machine tool building and engineering lead tech background. I’m just too old for gunsmithing school. But if I was younger that’s were I’d go. Congrats.

My 1911’s run flawlessly. I did everything to them.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

In the early to mid 80's I built about 25 1911 "Night stand" grade guns. I used Federal Ordnance alloy frames, usually a rewelded slide, and mostly GI parts. The last one I sold was $135. I test fired every one they kept mixed ball ammo in a large paper plate @ 25 yards, and I guaranteed them to "Go Bang" Repeatedly! You couldn't get factory Colts to do that! I sand blasted everything but the frame and parkerized everything to match the frame. Then I refit the whole pistol (took 10 minutes more than normal reassembly)

My secret to accuracy was a Cold Gold Cup bushing with 4 fingers, great fit every time and took no talent! The last few I did had thumb safety problems, went with Colt Sear and Disconnector. That solved the problems so I just quit using GI on those parts (extra $3, fewer worries!)

The downfall was the frame would come apart around 800 rounds, I told this to buyers, they bought them anyway! My personal guns were the 1st (sold it a couple months later) and 8th guns I put together. Right on time, around 800 rounds #8's dust shield cracked out at the slide release hole. So I Bought an Essex frame for 50% more than I ever sold a complete gun for! I moved all the parts over and it is still going strong almost 30 years later! I have a parts box in the garage, that has like 6 barrels and 2 slides and a big assortment of small parts. An about 8 pairs of stocks, mostly ugly to very ugly! But I just help guys out by fixing their screw-ups.

My favorite part that is no longer made, is the Pachmeyer brand Flat Main Spring Housing. I put my last one on a Kimber for my brother, and am sorry I did so!

Ivan

 

[BE Mike]

My secret to accuracy was a Cold Gold Cup bushing with 4 fingers, great fit every time and took no talent!

Ivan

Every pistolsmith I've ever spoken with thought the 4 finger Colt bushing, as found on Colt Gold Cups was junk ( they have been known to break). That and the tiny spring that supposedly put the sear back in exact position. I shot a Series 70 Gold Cup, back in my bullseye pistol match days. It wouldn't hold the 10 ring at 50 yards with one of those bushings. I sold it and got a Jim Clark accurized series 70 Government Model. I still have it. It has been tuned up and has a Kart barrel now. That accurized pistol solved my accuracy woes.

 

[nachogrande]

PARDON A STUPID QUESTION.

With ALL the 1911's out there, is there a true left handed 1911 that ejects to the (wrong) left side?

 

[H Richard]

Yes, I believe it was the Randall that was a true left hand 1911.

 

[Sevens]

Randall made a number of 1911 pistols but only the "Portsider" was a true left-side ejecting 1911. I have a hunch that someone else has made one, but I don't know who. The Portsider is extremely scarce and hard to find, in my experience.

This discussion, especially the Colt fingered collet barrel bushing leads me to ask if anyone has any experience with the Briley spherical bushing system? Depending on WHO and where you ask, you can be told that it's extremely precise or it's a "no labor shortcut cheat."

All I can confirm is that my Smith & Wesson Performance Center Limited target pistols have them, (not 1911's mind you) and these are truly elite and inspiringly accurate pistols that any gun gearhead or craftsman would appreciate. The fit between barrel and titanium spherical ring on these guns are absolutely fine, they just seem to float. It kind of "feels" like perfection to me, but I am no manner of a craftsman like many of you folks.

 

[BigBill]

My colt series 80 government 1911 has the spring loaded barrel bushing.

 

[one eye joe]

THERE'S A LOT OF COLT 1911 CRITICISM, ON THIS THREAD, ABOUT PROBLEMS THAT I NEVER EXPERIENCED.....

I CARRIED A WELL WORN COLT, USGI MODEL, WITH OBLITERATED NUMBERS, AS A PERSONAL WEAPON, IN VIETNAM. IT RATTLED LIKE A PAINT CAN, AND WENT BANG, EACH AND EVERY TIME. I PURCHASED IT FROM A DUDE ON HIS WAY HOME, AND SOLD IT WHEN MY TOUR OF DUTY WAS OVER.....

UPON MY RETURN TO THE WORLD, I GRAVITATED TO THE COLT 1911, FOR EDC. FOR OVER 3 DECADES, I CARRIED GOLD CUP, SERIES II, NATIONAL MATCH, PISTOLS----MILDLY PERSONALIZED WITH SOME WILSON COMBAT PARTS, LIKE BEAVERTAIL GRIP SAFETY, OVERSIZE MAG RELEASE BUTTON, AND SLIDE RELEASE LEVER. I NEVER HAD A SERIOUS PARTS FAILURE--EVEN THROUGH A DOZEN SEASONS OF BULLSEYE COMPETITION. I REPLACED RECOIL SPRINGS, A COUPLE OF FRONT SIGHTS THAT BLEW OFF, AND A BROKEN EXTRACTOR.....

ONE THING I CAN SAY IS THAT THE FEED RAMP, WAS VERY FINICKY, WITH REGARD TO THE OGIVE OF THE AMMO. NATURALLY, IT RAN 230GR, FMJ, FLAWLESSLY. FOR SD, I CARRIED CORBON , POW R BALL, WHICH HAD A TEFLON BALL, IN THE HP CAVITY, OR GOLDEN SABER, JHP. BOTH OF THEM FED AND CHAMBERED, FLAWLESSLY.......

MY LGS, THAT SPONSORED OUR TEAM, SOLD 230GR, LSWC, RELOADS, THAT WERE ACCURATE, RELIABLE, AND REASONABLY PRICED, ITS WHAT MOST OF US SHOT, IN PRACTICE AND IN MATCHES.....

IN ANY EVENT, IMHO, COLT GOLD CUPS ARE QUALTY PISTOLS. MOST OF THEM SHOOT BETTER, THAN MOST OF US CAN HOLD THEM......

 

[AJ]

Back in the day (mid to late '80's) I too, built M1911's from scratch. Built about 30 or so from pieces and parts I scrounged, bought, traded or was given. Got fairly good at it, if I do say so myself. Much preferred Caspian frames (started out paying $75 NIB for them). Seems as if it would be to much cost and effort to do the same thing now. Last I built was one that my Daughter and Son-In-Law requested as a wedding present about 25 years ago.

 

[CelticSire]

Are you sure that is a Caspian frame? It looks more like a older Safari Arms frame.

Did Caspian buy Safari Arms?

Olympic Arms bought Safari Arms sometime in the 1980s. This is a Caspian frame bought directly from them in the late 1990s, 1998 I believe.

 

[Filo McShoe]

The receiver like that I picked up was off a Safari Arms Matchmaster a friend of mine bought and then swapped it out because it rubbed his birdie finger wrong. I put a lot of work into that one and it came out great. I even milled the slide to use S&W revolver sights. Had a buddy at the jet engine welding shop cadmium plate the slide and frame.
Then someone offered me too much money for it and I sold it saying well I did it once I can do it again.
They lied to you, I lied to myself. Never equaled that gun.