I need some 32-20 5 screw advice

[M5741]

Newby here, and I say HEY to all members here on this great forum. I've been lurk'n around for a while and finally decided to dive right in.
I purchased a 1905 5 screw in 32-20 WCF a few days ago at one of the local pawn shops. I've never even picked up one of these revolvers before in my life. It absolutely felt great when I wrapped my mitts around the grips. I figured that was the best reason for buying it, yes? Serial number is 943xx. Im guessing its about a 1922 issue. It has a 5" barrell and is a blued model. Grips are wood, with no medallions. There is very very light speckled pitting on the surface. I disassembled to clean, and as suspected, dried on lubricant. The hammer was absolutely brutal to pull to the full cock position. I was hoping a good cleaning would solve that issue. I found some parts that
need replaced. The center pin has a slight bend where it protrudes out of the ejecter star, and is worn on one side where it goes into the recoil sheild. Also, the cylinder stop is worn where the nubbin protrudes above the frame to engage the cylinder. Question No.1: The original cylinder stop in the revolver has a spring and plunger that pushes on a radiused corner of the stop. The cylinder stops that are on line, have a hole in them where only a spring is used to push with. Can that cylinder stop be used to replace of the original? After cleaning and lubricating, the hammer pull did get smoother. But it is still very hard to pull to full cock position. No.2: Is it normal for these revolvers to have such a hard hammer pull. I have other revolvers, and don't have any problem pulling back the hammers.
Sorry for the first time long post. Regards

 

[daveboy]

I can't answer your questions, but show us some photos!

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! I second the request for photos of the internal mechanism with the sideplate off, to see if there is anything visibly unusual. Photos of the outside would just be for fun.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the party, M5741! Since you mention a bent center pin, it could be causing binding that causes hand/ratchet friction. You might try to cycle the action with the sideplate on and the cylinder open. You'll have to pull back on the release thumbpiece to disengage the bolt safety. If the action cycles freely, you likely have a center pin issue. If it still binds, try it with the cylinder open and the sideplate off. If it frees up, it may be the hammer block safety that is binding. If all that doesn't work, post some pictures of the action and the experts can give it a shot.

 

[M5741]

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention that I believe the revolver is a 4th change. Anyone have an idea when this serial # 945xx revolver was sent out from the factory? I put all the innards back together. Left the side plate off, and everything functions nice and smooth as it should. Of course I had to hold the release back for it to work. Then I installed the main spring. That's when things go south. It's way to hard to pull back the hammer, and pull the trigger in double action. I then installed the cylinder back in. There's no change, the double action pull was the same, and pulling to full cock was the same. This leads me to believe that the issue is with the main/hammer spring. I have read in my searches, that others have mentioned that they had the same issues with the 32-20 revolvers. I don't believe that it would make any difference what the caliber was. I have another spring coming, just in case someone may have replaced the spring with one that's to heavy. Can't do pictures at this time. Taking a crash course in navigating the computer. Sorry

 

[shawn mccarver]

Make sure the strain screw is screwed all the way down. Oddly, a strain screw that is too loose can cause all sorts of problems including, but not limited to, making the action exceedingly difficult to cycle.

 

[M5741]

Yes, it is screwed all the way in.

 

[rct269]

Methinks it's worth noting the sideplate secures/supports the outer end of the hammer and trigger studs----when it's in place-----and nothing secures them when it's not. Cycling the action with the sideplate off strikes me as tempting fate.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[dwh]

Make sure that the main spring hooks aren't dragging on the frame. I have seen the hooks be little to long and and hit the frame past the cylinder release assembly. Not having the correct bend in the main spring can cause this as well. Try adding a primer cup to the strain screw where it touches the main spring.Then try a new mainspring. Make sure that your revolver doesn't have hammer push off. Messed up seat angles causes all kinds of grief as well.
Good luck.

 

[M5741]

I understand what you're saying Ralph, but I also repeated the procedure with the side plate back on. No difference at all.

 

[M5741]

I checked the spring hooks for wear spots, also checked for wear spots inside where they could have rubbed. Nothing there. Thank you all for your suggestions. I'll keep pluggin away.

 

[JP@AK]

Anyone have an idea when this serial # 945xx revolver was sent out from the factory?

Probably 1920 or 1921, based on nearby serial numbers.

 

[glowe]

Welcome. First thing is to try and isolate the problem. If there is no drag on the cylinder when opened and spinning, then close the action and pull back the trigger slowly until the cylinder rotates. Turn it 360 degrees and if it mover freely with little resistance then center rod is not the problem. Next, remove the sideplate and check to make sure all studs are tight without any play. loose studs can cause the trigger or hammer to bind on the sideplate. Remove the stocks and closely look at the mainspring when cocking the gun to make sure it is not dragging on the back of the hammer or on the frame. If everything checks out to this point, remove the mainspring and operate the action to try to locate where the action is binding. Report back with the results.

 

[M5741]

Jack, thank you for the date appoximation. I wasn't to far off will my 1922 guesstimate.
Gary, I really have tried all of those reccomendations you stated, to no avail. I have a new center pin and cylinder lock with spring on order. The spring kit I ordered the first of the week, has three different weight rebound springs. Maybe one of those will take some of the tension off and lighten the pull.
Jack

 

[M5741]

I feeler gauged the barrel/cylinder gap and it is a whopping .011. Can someone give me a crash course explanation of adding a shim/bearing, and where to put it. I'm assuming the cylinder has to be moved forward to close the gap, but I guess I don't understand how putting the shim in the front of the cylinder is going to close the gap???

 

[4K2022]

I feeler gauged the barrel/cylinder gap and it is a whopping .011. Can someone give me a crash course explanation of adding a shim/bearing, and where to put it. I'm assuming the cylinder has to be moved forward to close the gap, but I guess I don't understand how putting the shim in the front of the cylinder is going to close the gap???

The riddle of a Gunsmith,,
Is what separates Us mere mortals from attempting what you are doing. I'm most excited about the 32-20(Winchester) Model K Frames and have embarrassed myself several times here on the forum.

This is a Topic for the "SMITHING" section of the forum.

Some of those guys can fix THIS issue with their eyes closed and one arm tied behind their back! Not me,, need pictures. The frame of a Winchester model,, in the #90xxx range if I remember correctly may HAVE the,, one line Made in USA stamping.
A 5" inch is an awesome
fixed sight "utility gun,, congrats. Hope to witness this project.

 

[glowe]

I feeler gauged the barrel/cylinder gap and it is a whopping .011 . . .

Personally, I would not worry about it, but that would be maximum. It could ultimately result in the barrel needing setback, which is a gunsmith/machinist job, not something to be done at home. Proper air gap (barrel to cylinder clearance) on S&W revolvers is .004-.010 inch, so .001" over is not too much. Just to make sure what you are measuring, there are three conditions to consider. Barrel to cylinder clearance, endshake, and headspace are three separate conditions. Corrections to any of these conditions is a little difficult to answer easily. I recommend a copy of The S&W Revolver A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen as an excellent source of information and an important shop manual. Price runs from $25 to $35 from ebay and Abe's books.

 

[M5741]

Thanks for the information members. Ok, I won't be concerned with the b/c gap. I'll just make sure I keep my hand away from the front end of the cylinder.
I believe I have found out why cocking the hammer is so hard. The trigger return spring is atrocious. Years ago, I sent my model 57 in to have some parts replaced. The trigger return spring was one of them. I kept the replaced parts. Today, I put the replaced return spring from the model 57, in the 5 screw. It made a world of difference. The trigger is a little sluggish on the return. The spring in the 5 screw is 1.70 long, and .042 wire diameter. The spring from the model 57 is .100 in length, and the wire is .040 diameter. I have three return springs coming with a main spring from Wilson. One of those 3 springs should lighten the hammer pull, and still allow the trigger to return properly.

 

[glowe]

NEVER place fingers ahead of the cylinder face on any revolver. You would be asking for anything from burns to finger amputation depending on caliber.

 

[M5741]

Ha! That was a test Gary. You passed. Been shooting revolvers since 69, never burned yet.

 

[M5741]

I received the spring kit from Wolf. I replaced the trigger return spring in the revolver, with the 12# spring in the kit. That alone made cocking the hammer back so much easier. The new main spring in the kit did not work. When pulling the trigger double action, the spring would come unhooked from the sturrip. I may check and see if I can find a different main spring.
Question about bullet weight: I know that heavier weight bullets have different POI than lighter weights. They will generally hit higher because of the dwell time in the barrel from lower velocities. Seeing as how this revolver will only be poking holes in paper, I would like for it to hit as close to POA as possible. I drove up to T&B bullets today and bought 100 .313 78 grain rn, and 100, 100 grain rnfp .313 bullets. If I receive my brass tomorrow, I will load up a few of each weight bullet to try out
and see which one shoot the tightest group, and the closest to POA. Anyone have any feedback as to which bullets shoot best for them in their 32-20 revolvers???

 

[Brooks]

I recommend 115gr .314
My 1908 32-20 HE has .314 throats and .314 groove diameter.
I like the heavy bullets the best.

 

[M5741]

Is the POI of that bullet, the same as your POA???

 

[Brooks]

Yes, but I have filed the front sight down a touch a few years ago.

 

[M5741]

Ok, thank you Brooks.

 

[Igiveup]

Brooks, thank you for the chart.
M5471, where is T&B bullets located? Wonder if they are the same outfit that sponsored the Central Point gunshow a couple weeks ago. I bought a bag of 32=20 ammo from them but haven't tried it yet.

 

[M5741]

Thank you for the load data as well.
I slugged the bore of my revolver. With the 5 lands and grooves, it's kind of tricky (for me at least) to get a proper measurement. I don't have a v-type accessory to use. I used dial calipers to measure the T&B bullets I bought yesterday. They ARE .313 diameter, and just slide through the cylinder throats under their own weight. I would prefer that they were .314. If they don't shoot well, I will try putting another layer of powder coat on them and size to .314. I believe .314 would fit well down the bore as well.
Jack

 

[Brooks]

The .313 bullets.......Shoot-em. And then buy more!

 

[M5741]

Yes, I will do that. My 100 bag Starline brass came this afternoon. Looks like I'll be putting together some test rounds shortly.

 

[M5741]

Oh by the way, The Albany Rifle Pistol show starts this Saturday March 1st, and ends Sunday the 2nd. Right here in Albany Oregon. One of the best gun shows in the PNW. EVERYONE IS WELCOME. None members,10.00 entrance fee.
Jack