I told the NRA today I agree with background checks

[sambuh]

Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

You don't seem to care about criminals legally obtaining automobiles, but FAR more serial killers have used automobiles than firearms. What do you plan to do about THAT, and what onerous measures are you willing to impose to address it?

And what about computers? It seems every few months there's a roundup of online pedophiles. In fact, I heard of one yesterday. What are you going to do to stop convicted pedophiles from obtaining computers? What are you going to do to stop pedophiles who haven't yet been caught from getting computers?

Some have a fixation on guns, and are more than willing to countenance any and every imposition on NON-criminal gun owners, up to and including causing them to not BE gun owners.

I actually am not even sure how to respond to this... I mean how else would an online criminal commit a crime but online?

Again, and this will be the last time I say this. You cannot legislate every single issue away. But you can make common sense law.

The question is, if criminals purchase guns legally to commit crimes, what should be done? Your answer is nothing. I disagree. If something can be done it should. Does that mean taking away computers from "online pedos"? I don't know. Maybe, but I don't know.

 

[sambuh]

It apparently has never occurred to you to put those criminals in prison...

Yes. It has. Enforce the laws we currently have. Stricter enforcement. I LOVE that idea.

Ok so our disagreement is in this; you believe it's a step to collecting all the guns, and we are succumbed to their every whim. I can respect that. I personally believe that we still as the people, have the power but choose not to contend. I don't think that would ever happen. So therein lies the crux of our disagreement. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it

 

[luangtom]

While it may be good to have a general back-ground check like one gets for a carry-permit, it is not a good idea to call-in and basically register each and every time a firearm comes to your stable or their ploy of back-ground checks for ammo. I do not agree with per firearm back-ground checks and I do not agree with ammo back-ground checks. It only keeps honest people legal.

Not one of the perps I dealt with during my time in LE went to the trouble of completing a 4473 for his or her firearms nor did they apply for carry-permits. Laws and rules only keep honest people honest.

 

[cmort666]

Maybe it's give an inch and get that inch back.

Name a SINGLE instance of that happening. ONE.

Exactly WHEN has the other side given something up?

As to low post counts and sudden appearances, that ALWAYS happens when a big push for gun control starts. Once is happenstance. Two hundred times is enemy action.

 

[sambuh]

While it may be good to have a general back-ground check like one gets for a carry-permit, it is not a good idea to call-in and basically register each and every time a firearm comes to your stable or their ploy of back-ground checks for ammo. I do not agree with per firearm back-ground checks and I do not agree with ammo back-ground checks. It only keeps honest people legal.

Not one of the perps I dealt with during my time in LE went to the trouble of completing a 4473 for his or her firearms nor did they apply for carry-permits. Laws and rules only keep honest people honest.

I agree. Registration is a bad idea.

 

[sambuh]

Name a SINGLE instance of that happening. ONE.

Exactly WHEN has the other side given something up?

As to low post counts and sudden appearances, that ALWAYS happens when a big push for gun control starts. Once is happenstance. Two hundred times is enemy action.

I can think of one. The NRA came out and said more police in school!!

Obama said, ok. If you want that, my first executive order is to give you federal assistance in doing that

 

[tacreload]

The end game is this, Total disarming us law biding citizens. That's the agenda of the left. Let's stop this madness, (infighting) and find a solution to there gun grabbing. BHO has his old campaign starting up as a non profit org. to fight us in every way possible. Cutter, Rahm, and Gibbs. Us fighting here with the Trolls sent by them is already making us look bad. Our way of life is being infringed upon period..
They only see the word NRA, now we have to show them our numbers in human form. The law biding citizen, men, women, and children our members. So far they have made us out to be the criminals and we have to stop that. They need to see us and what we do in our every day life. They don't know us and what we really stand for!!
We can solve this together now before it gets out of hand. It's going get down right nasty now that there new "coalition" is getting up and running.
We need answers and conceding to there infringements is not the answer!!!

Well I have read every post on this thread so far and there are a lot of things brought to my attention that I really hadn't taken into consideration.I am usually pretty stubborn in my opinions and not generally swayed.I believe I am guilty of taking this background check issue too lightly since I have been living with it for most of my life.So I guess I have to man up and say I was wrong.There are a lot of ramifications tied to this that I let my guard down on.So I better start paying more attention to what is going on and not be so naive.After reading what a lot of you had to say I am actually quite embarrassed that I let it by me.These issues are too important to not be taken very seriously so I guess if we hang together I would hope to be among you.

 

[cmort666]

I don't think that would ever happen.

Clearly you've never lived in Chicago.

I can believe you when you say can't ever happen, or I can believe what the other side (from me, anyway) says they PLAN to do and what's actually happened, in Chicago, D.C., NYC and elsewhere.

I'm puzzled how you think that you can make me believe "it can't happen" when it already has. But then every gun control advocate I've come across seems to believe that I'll forget 55 years of observation and experience and just believe whatever they tell me.

 

[jaykellogg]

My concerns with background checks is that it becomes backdoor registration. In my experience it has not been particularly effective and the "same folks" pushing for background checks are pushing back on mental health issues. would be a lot more comfortable with background checks if they were done by the state. NC and Iowa have a permit system. If I sell a gun and I want the buyer to have been subjected to a check, I can insist on seeing a carry permit OR a purchase permit.

To sum it up, state background checks make me uncomfortable, Federal background checks make me very, very uncomfortable.

 

[cmort666]

I can think of one. The NRA came out and said more police in school!!

Obama said, ok. If you want that, my first executive order is to give you federal assistance in doing that

That gave GUN OWNERS, what exactly? What restriction on gun owners did it lessen or remove?

I asked you what GUN OWNERS have gotten from militant anti-gunners in exchange for giving up our rights and you came up with... NOTHING.

 

[cp1969]

Check out sambuh's organization to which he provided a link: Gun Victims Action Council

Boy, what a level-headed, unbiased bunch. "Gun victims" Not victims of criminal human beings, but "gun victims." Advocating more "reasonable" and "common sense" gun laws. One of it's assertions is that a mentally unstable person who could not legally buy a handgun legally bought one.

I would not accept one word of their blather as the truth.

 

[cp1969]

Another point: Give an inch and get it back? NOT HARDLY. The only reason the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban is not with us today is because it had a 10 year SUNSET provision which ended it.

 

[Comrad]

So yesterday in Middletown NJ a nut walked up to a young mother with a baby and stabbed her 12 times. The good news is she will survive.I think I will write my representative and ask that sets of steak knives be limited to seven. That makes sense right?

 

[sambuh]

Check out sambuh's organization to which he provided a link: Gun Victims Action Council

Boy, what a level-headed, unbiased bunch. "Gun victims" Not victims of criminal human beings, but "gun victims." Advocating more "reasonable" and "common sense" gun laws. One of it's assertions is that a mentally unstable person who could not legally buy a handgun legally bought one.

I would not accept one word of their blather as the truth.

Hahaha wow.

I'm beginning to see the problem here... As soon as you label a problem left or right you can forget solving it. The left could say the sky is blue and the right would absolutely lose their mind. and then those of us left in the middle are stuck scratching our heads.

Alright well I tried. To the OP you're not alone. I believe sensible action can be had. And should be... As does the MANY others. I'm going to stop trying to understand and go back to posting about how I enjoy shooting. Good talk guys... Well most of you anyways.

 

[cmort666]

So yesterday in Middletown NJ a nut walked up to a young mother with a baby and stabbed her 12 times. The good news is she will survive.I think I will write my representative and ask that sets of steak knives be limited to seven. That makes sense right?

There are those in Britain who think that steak knives should be BANNED. They want to BAN all table and kitchen knives with points so that people can't be STABBED with them. One wonders what they'll propose when they learn that people often get their throats slit with knives, at least one stewardess on 9/11 for example.

 

[cmort666]

I'm beginning to see the problem here... As soon as you label a problem left or right you can forget solving it.

No, you haven't the vaguest clue about the "problem".

Your insurmountable obstacle is that we're not the gullible rubes the talking points from VPC, Brady and the newly redirected Obama campaign organization tell you we are. You obviously think that you can tell us literally ANYTHING and we'll just swallow it, hook line and sinker. That shows a profound disrespect for your intended marks, but then the other side (from gun owners, anyway) is completely suffused with contempt and loathing for gun owners, at least those of us not in the privileged class.

Don't feel bad. Nobody else on ANY other firearms related message board I've seen has been one iota more successful at convincing gun owners to start the process of not BEING gun owners than you have.

 

[Biginge]

Why are ya'll fooling with this dude?

 

[sambuh]

No, you haven't the vaguest clue about the "problem".

Your insurmountable obstacle is that we're not the gullible rubes the talking points from VPC, Brady and the newly redirected Obama campaign organization tell you we are. You obviously think that you can tell us literally ANYTHING and we'll just swallow it, hook line and sinker. That shows a profound disrespect for your intended marks, but then the other side (from gun owners, anyway) is completely suffused with contempt and loathing for gun owners, at least those of us not in the privileged class.

Don't feel bad. Nobody else on ANY other firearms related message board I've seen has been one iota more successful at convincing gun owners to start the process of not BEING gun owners than you have.

Well I am privileged. You got that right. But I am actually a gun owner. And just because you actually choose to scream louder and more obtrusively, doesn't actually mean you are right. But I can at least respect and understand where you are coming from. Even though I disagree with it. But the beauty is we can still go on owning and using our firearm responsibly, regardless of whether we see eye to eye.

 

[photoman]

I'm actually somewhat dumbfounded that in the face of some staggering, disturbing factual evidence, that some are still pushing back so hard. Lets do this. Because I'm not necessarily for any policy change as much as I am for addressing a clear and very present and very real problem; Let's start with the problem. More often than not guns are not stolen. Criminals legally obtain them. Let me reiterate that point. Criminals obtain guns legally. I think we can look at the data and agree, yes that is true. If that is true, and you don't like a background check, what is your solution? This isn't rhetorical, I want to know. To me the most sensible answer? "begin to enforce stricter penalties on dealers, and close these private sale loopholes." In my opinion it doesn't affect the private citizen. So what do we do?

Felons (criminals) DO NOT buy guns legally. Please stop saying that as it is 100% FALSE.

It is against the law for a felon to purchase a gun (unless they have successfully petitioned for their rights; I don't think you are referring to those).

There is no way, under current law for a felon (criminal) to obtain a gun legally.

 

[carpriver]

If I hold CCW permit, which I do, having been thoroughly checked out by the FBI and State, why should I have to pay for a background check every time I buy a gun or a box of ammo?

In Michigan once you have your CLP. you can go into any gun store in Michigan and but a firearm, no further background needed. But I fear that may change.