ID of bullet and Do I lube this bullet or not?

[Spur]

I ran into a lot of swagged bullets back in the day as part of an estate sale. A lot of them were Albert/Taurus swagged bullets that had a shinny slick black surface. I found load data for them from someone at the Firingeline years ago. Fast forward to today and I opened another ammo can full of them but mixed in with them were what looked like a different bullet, that is 148 gr soup can with a dull grey surface, not the same shiny black slick surface that the Albert/Taurus have. Are these safe to load as is?
The sfirst pic shows the bullets in question separated into a box, and the second pic shows the weight, with the Albert/Tausus bullets to the left of the scale. They measure out at .357.

 

[TJm15.38]

Those look to have a dry lube coating and from what I see in your photo they are hollow-base wadcutters. These look very similar to Hornady's 148 grain target bullet. I don't think you will need to put any lube on them. I load the Hornady bullet a lot in .38 Special using Winchester small pistol primers and 3.0 grains of Winchester 231 or HP38.

 

[gwpercle]

Load as is ... 2.7 grs Bullseye is my pet target load in 38 Special .
The soft swaged bullets can't be pushed too hard ... Target Loads
and you should be fine with no leading .
Gary

 

[rockquarry]

I don't recall using any bullet with a dry powder coating, but they will likely shoot well if you keep velocity in the 725-800 fps range. Lubing those would be a mess with no lube grooves and it probably would do nothing for accuracy.

 

[stansdds]

They appear to be swaged (soft) lead bullets. I expect they have a dry lubricant coating on them. Maybe I'm seeing things, but it looks like on of the bullets in the lower left part of the box has rifling marks on it, indicating it is a used and recovered bullet.

 

[handejector]

I don't think those are hollow base. They look like double ended WCs that are the same on both ends. Those first appeared in the late 70s or 80s, as I recall.
They do have a dry lubricant on them.
With hollow base WCs, you had to feed them into an Ammo-Load machine using cardboard tubes that held about 50-60 bullets (can't remember how many). That kept you hustling when the machine was running 4000 rounds per hour! It didn't take a minute to empty a tube. Now a thin three-four foot long cardboard tube a half inch in diameter that is full of lead is a hard item to handle quickly. As you move quickly and rotate it vertical with your finger over the bottom (open) end, if you make a sudden movement, it bends/kinks in the middle and you have to hold it straight till the bullets get below the kink. You need the time you are holding it to be getting the next tube ready! Major PITA.
Joe Stallings of Zero Bullet Company started making the Double End Wadcutters (don't know if he designed them) and designed a simple hopper made of 1/8 or 3/16 sheet steel that bolted to the head of the Ammo-Load. He also designed an upper tip for the bullet feed tube. As the head went up and down, the tube, being stationary, agitated the bullets and they dropped right into the tube. Sheer genius! No moving parts except the hopper moving with the machine's head, nothing electrical, no adjustments, and no possible jams. Just dump a 500 count box into the hopper as needed. Life got easier!
I've loaded 30-40,000 38 WCs on an Ammo-Load in a day many, many days.

 

[rwsmith]

The Hornaday and Speer....

...swaged bullets that I've bought have a dry lube, maybe some sort of graphite on them. It doesn't come off with handling, though, so I'm not sure how it's applied.

 

[Fessor]

Yep. Looks like DEWCs to me. 2.7 grains of Bullseye is the excellent load.

 

[mtgianni]

If the lube has failed, and they lead, buy some Lee liquid alox and tumble lube them. It will not allow you to shoot them at a higher velocity. 35 years is a long time to expect wax to stay on a product.

 

[taz666]

Look a lot like the DEWC offered by Bear Creek.

 

[smoothshooter]

I ran into a lot of swagged bullets back in the day as part of an estate sale. A lot of them were Albert/Taurus swagged bullets that had a shinny slick black surface. I found load data for them from someone at the Firingeline years ago. Fast forward to today and I opened another ammo can full of them but mixed in with them were what looked like a different bullet, that is 148 gr soup can with a dull grey surface, not the same shiny black slick surface that the Albert/Taurus have. Are these safe to load as is?
The sfirst pic shows the bullets in question separated into a box, and the second pic shows the weight, with the Albert/Tausus bullets to the left of the scale. They measure out at .357.

View attachment 698814

View attachment 698815

I think you mean “ swaged “ instead of “ swagged “.

 

[Green Frog]

I agree with the big gorilla… usually a pretty safe move! They seem to be DEWCs, and are intended to be loaded as is over light (target) loads of Bullseye, HP38/231, or similar powders.

Because they have a solid base, they can probably be driven a little harder than HBWCs with safety, and some folks use them this way for small game or even self defense, but they really thrive in target loads.

Froggie

 

[glenwolde]

I think I see a hollow base, but regardless, HBWC or DEWC, those are fine to shoot as is. They look like the Hornady product which come with a white powder lube on them.

I have a jar of that powder somewhere. Frankford Arsenal Pure Ground Mica. I used to buy bulk Remington HBWC's and they come with some nasty black silicone-something-or-other lube that I'd knock (most of it) off and lube with the powder.

 

[2152hq]

Alberts used to sell a 30cal rifle bullet as well.
A 150gr IIRC. Same very soft lead, plain base, and meant for low vel shooting per the mfg'rs instructions.
I think they called them the Scheutzen Bullet.

I used to shoot a lot of them in '06 & 30-40 w/ RedDot and the like.
Same black coated lube surface. Seemed like a dry wax maybe with some graphite in it. But it didn't rub off in your hands that I recall.

They were $2 or $2.50 /per 100 at the time (mid/late 70's?)

I don't think they made any other rifle caliber bullets.

They were orig Taurus Bullets but changed the name to Alberts after Taurus Firearms complained about the name.
I think Albert was the first name of the guy that ran the company.

I'd just coat them with some LEE Alox right over whats there and keep the vel down as orig intended. Soft lead no matter what they are lubed with.
Some even coat really soft bullets intended for low vel with a hard floor wax disolved in a bit of mineral spirits. Same technique as with the Lee Alox.
Seems to be enough to get them down range at those velocitys w/o any leading. Quite simple and cheap to accomplish.

 

[Borderboss]

Lead bullets I always toss in Alox to get a light coating of lube on them. I've never had a leading problem by doing this. Once the Alox is dry, which doesn't take too long, it's on there forever.

 

[rockquarry]

Lead bullets I always toss in Alox to get a light coating of lube on them. I've never had a leading problem by doing this. Once the Alox is dry, which doesn't take too long, it's on there forever.

Before trying this, I'd shoot groups with some as is and some with the Liquid Alox coating. It's possible to use too much lube which can degrade accuracy.
I'd go with the most accurate. The uncoated bullets should not lead unless you shoot them too fast.

 

[KAC]

They look like the Zero bullets I used to load years ago, although they were HBWC. The coating on the bullets would transfer to the bore of the barrel and would come out in sheets when cleaning after a couple 150 round PPC matches.
KAC

 

[Spur]

Thanks for all the replies, don't have any Bullseye anymore so went with 3.0 g of HP38 and I'm satisfied with the results...I think I have about 500 of them so now to get some more loaded up. Not sure of the manufacturer, not that it matters, but don't believe they are the Alberts/Taurus.

 

[stansdds]

Bullseye might be the best for match wadcutter 38 Special loads, it's certainly the classic powder, but HP-38/W-231 can be pretty impressive too.