Idiots at the range

[Dragon88]

Last year at my old range a man blew his left thumb off with a S&W 500. The gun belonged to another older gentleman who often shoots it and lets other people shoot it. He offered to let this man shoot it, but obviously did not give him much instruction or supervision. The shooter had his left thumb right up against the cylinder gap. There wasn't much left above the first knuckle after the round touched off, just some meat and skin dangling. Paramedics came and took him to the hospital along with some pieces of the thumb that were found by other shooters. They were not able to re-attach it, however. The range was closed for about 30 minutes. I finished my rounds quickly then packed up and went home, shaking my head the whole way.

 

[matmat417]

reminds me of my cousin, well he had come down to visit and my friends wants to go to his land and take care of a few things with his new pistol cz something or nother. so i ask my cousin have you ever shot a pistol before, i hear "ya my dad took me when i was younger" ok so im thinking he knows what hes doing well ill be damned if he grips the gun thumb up trying to cock the hammer when its already be racked back. i yell stop you dumbsonabitch right now before i have to explain why uncles son isnt going to become a surgeon. i sent him to the truck and he has never gone with me again in fear of the same thing.

as everyone says you cant fix stupid and you cant give common sense.

 

[vector16]

Okay the thing from Dragon88, I have shot one of those 500's. I would never own one. there is nothing i could ever use it for realisticly. If you were fishing up in alaska on Kodiak island or on some iceberg somewhere and you need it in your tackle box for a bear, maybe. The .460 or the 454 os a beast on its own. Still am hard pressed to find something I could justify the purchase on. When I shot the .500, HS!! I had that thing at full arms distance and it flask damn near singed my eyebrowes off. What kind of force is coming out of that cyninder area? there has got to be 600,000 BTU, I cannot even imagine the f'n pressure.
matmat, you need to take him shooting more. I know that BPS sells hats with antlers this time of year for about $4.00. Might be a good investment.

 

[vytoland]

when humans are involved.....ANYTHING is possible

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

The above is why I am a member of a couple of private clubs. In my experience, members of such are typically more knowledgeable and exercise more care with firearms.

I'm sure that you're right, but up here, they're not enough better. They get some state-mandated instruction, club member or not, but in many cases the tradition is missing. The theoreticians think that they cover it all, but they don't know how many layers to cover it with, and they don't know what training and education over a decade count for. That's my city-bred Yankee analysis, anyway.

 

[vector16]

I'm sure that you're right, but up here, they're not enough better. They get some state-mandated instruction, club member or not, but in many cases the tradition is missing. The theoreticians think that they cover it all, but they don't know how many layers to cover it with, and they don't know what training and education over a decade count for. That's my city-bred Yankee analysis, anyway.

In my experience, whether it be guns, computers, fishing, etc. when giving instruction to anyone, you have to give it like you are teaching a 5 year old. They me be experts and newbees in the same group, you have to talk slow and make sure even the "experts" pay attention to what you are saying.
Take this for example:
The first item in a new gun manual says "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE OPERATING THIS GUN". Even though I have used MANY guns and already know how the gun operates i still read the "stupid manual" before I do anything with the gun. There may be something I have missed before in reading one of the others. This by no means makes me a moron or stupid. The ones that don't read the "stupid manual" are the ones that something happens. This includes everyone. I have seen people loose fingers, hands, ability to walk, breath etc and its because they did not read the manual.
I hate to make the comparison AGAIN, Typically the people that don't read the manual are the ones with the "easy to operate" guns, GLOCK. In my many searches on the web when i research guns I always look up the gun I am interested in and type in PROBLEMS after it. There are pages and pages of Problems where people have not read the manual. For instance, cast rounds through a Glock don't work, +p rounds through a Glock don't work and can be dangerous. There is forum after forum related to Glock pistols with things that have gone wrong with the gun because they don't read the manual. Glocktalk is one of those sites, policelink is one of those sights. I am not insinuating they all are half minded but the manual is there for a reason. READ IT! even if you own a pistol and model that you have had for years and decide to buy another of the exact same gun, read that manual!!, there might be something you missed or something new, even really tiny and insuggnificant.

 

[ChuckS1]

A couple of weeks ago I was shooting at the local IWLA range. It's a private range, but you're pretty much on an honor system in terms of range safety. So it was just me and one other guy shooting and two guys show up with a NIB Judge and a box of .410 shells loaded with #8 shot. While we were putting up new targets, they begin to put clay pigeons on the 25 yard berm. The other gentleman pointed out that only paper targets were allowed, but they were a little belligerent and I stayed out if the discussion (maybe I shouldn't have but it wasn't worth the hassle at the time). Anyways, long story short, cooler heads prevailed and they started shooting. Guess who was upset that his brand spanking new Judge wasn't busting pigeons at 25 yards?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

vector16,

Of course, you are absolutely right. In addition, many folks will not believe the instruction manual, even if it is correct and has good reasons for its pronouncements, if the reasons are not stated, Occasionally, a particularly obstinate person may not believe the reasons even if they are stated. Some of those folks cannot be helped. But when a child is taught by his parents over a period of years, and his contemporaries get approximately, or even exactly, the same lessons, the questioning often doesn't take place, and, sooner or later, the adolescent or adult may actually even understand what he knew was an inviolable rule all along.

If I seem to be harping on the tradition thing, it is because I lost a good friend, a North Georgia native of high IQ who thought he knew better than tradition. He didn't.

 

[Hondo44]

In my experience, whether it be guns, computers, fishing, etc. when giving instruction to anyone, you have to give it like you are teaching a 5 year old. They me be experts and newbees in the same group, you have to talk slow and make sure even the "experts" pay attention to what you are saying.
Take this for example:
The first item in a new gun manual says "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE OPERATING THIS GUN". Even though I have used MANY guns and already know how the gun operates i still read the "stupid manual" before I do anything with the gun. There may be something I have missed before in reading one of the others. This by no means makes me a moron or stupid. The ones that don't read the "stupid manual" are the ones that something happens. This includes everyone. I have seen people loose fingers, hands, ability to walk, breath etc and its because they did not read the manual.
I hate to make the comparison AGAIN, Typically the people that don't read the manual are the ones with the "easy to operate" guns, GLOCK. In my many searches on the web when i research guns I always look up the gun I am interested in and type in PROBLEMS after it. There are pages and pages of Problems where people have not read the manual. For instance, cast rounds through a Glock don't work, +p rounds through a Glock don't work and can be dangerous. There is forum after forum related to Glock pistols with things that have gone wrong with the gun because they don't read the manual. Glocktalk is one of those sites, policelink is one of those sights. I am not insinuating they all are half minded but the manual is there for a reason. READ IT! even if you own a pistol and model that you have had for years and decide to buy another of the exact same gun, read that manual!!, there might be something you missed or something new, and insignificant.

Excellent advice!! I think you may have meant; "...even really tiny and SEEMINGLY insignificant".

 

[jeffrey]

I was shooting at a members-only range and all the pistol pits were occupied and a guy I didn't know came up to me and asked if he could share the pit I was using. As it was the widest of the pits, I said sure, and then the idiot informed me that since it was so wide, we could both shoot "without bothering with all that hot range/cold range stuff." That's when I decided that I was the idiot in consenting to shoot so close to someone I didn't know, and took off for the day.

 

[bitstream]

I expect you are correct, krehmkej, kind of like the infamous M1 Thumb-it's not something that's not often repeated.

Bob

I learned this during College in ROTC. I was working it and had just started pressing down suddenly my spider senses started tingling and I realized that all the guys were leaning forward watching intently with smiles on their faces... I snapped my thumb back out a milisecond before the action snapped. They all howled that they missed the funny. I whacked them on the shoulders for not telling me

 

[Fishslayer]

in my CCW class the instructor told us of a little old lady who did this with a 9MM.
she was quite bull headed about getting a thumb behind the slide and about the time the instructor figured he had her trained not to she fired a few shots properly then reverted.
another one in the class was a doctor .. the gun laid her open the doc stitched her up in the parking lot and she came back in to qualify. No ... she didnt do it again.

Bullheaded? Sure...

Tough as nails? Most definitely!

 

[Straightshooter2]

But a few weeks ago one "day shooter" [non-club member] did something I hadn't seen before.
Started walking down range to put up his target during a "hot" range and while live fire going on all around him.

I see the JAX portion of your screen name so I'm assuming it was at Gateway. When I was a member there, I used to stay as far away from the "day shooters" as I could. I remember one idiot that was holding his 9mm sideways or "gangbanger" style. I packed up my pistols and went over to shoot on the rifle side for a while.

CW

 

[vector16]

gangster style shooting

The last time i went to the outdoor range about 75 mile from here, There was a group of morons that could not dress, fight, put a whole word together w/o using the word "essay", or "Cuz" or the other one i'd get booted from the forum for using, you know gangsters. The were shooting with the guns sideways too. About an hour after being there the DFG and ATF agents were dong a firearms check on everyones guns to make sure they were legal and LEGAL. they saw how the little gangster boys were shooting like that and closed their shop for the day, ran ALL of them and the guns they were using and took ALL of them the jail. Towed ALL their cars and told everyone else to have a good day. Very funny!

 

[Marshall 357]

I stopped going to gun ranges about 8 yrs ago, lady and her boyfriend were shooting a .25 auto pistol that was giving them some feeding problems...the gun jammed and the lady pointed the pistol at me,started pulling the slide and triggerI jumped out of the way and said hey watch it, or something like that.Thank goodness her boyfriend grabbed her hand and took the pistol.

 

[Alpo]

The last time i went to the outdoor range about 75 mile from here, There was a group of morons that could not dress, fight, put a whole word together w/o using the word "essay", or "Cuz" or the other one i'd get booted from the forum for using, you know gangsters. The were shooting with the guns sideways too. About an hour after being there the DFG and ATF agents were dong a firearms check on everyones guns to make sure they were legal and LEGAL. they saw how the little gangster boys were shooting like that and closed their shop for the day, ran ALL of them and the guns they were using and took ALL of them the jail. Towed ALL their cars and told everyone else to have a good day. Very funny!

What's the DFG?

That piece I bolded - that's about the scariest thing I've ever seen. You are at a legal place to fire a gun, and the cops show up and start checking people's IDs and running their guns? No warrant? No "Probable Cause"? Just - "we're doing it because we can"?

You don't consider that a violation of civil rights, in California?

It was a good thing, because it resulted in the arrest of these "gangster boys"? So the police going into every house in town, checking IDs and running serial numbers of everything that had a number on it, would be a good thing too, because they would undoubtedly catch many criminals.

 

[BearBio]

DFG is Department of Fish and Game in California. Also, California has stringent gun laws (one of the reasons we left), it would be easy for someone to report a violation (magazine size, assault rifle, etc). Also, it may be posted that you are subject to a check by LE and consent to that examination by using the range.

Heck, the range might have called them!

 

[DeadAye]

DFG is Department of Fish and Game in California. Also, California has stringent gun laws (one of the reasons we left), it would be easy for someone to report a violation (magazine size, assault rifle, etc). Also, it may be posted that you are subject to a check by LE and consent to that examination by using the range.

Heck, the range might have called them!

Here too - You have to give consent to use most ranges.

I don't see the problem. No one busted the door down to someone's Baby Momma Section 8 *house* to do the checks.
These idiots go to a range and act like fools and get checked for warrants, felon in possession, etc. and there's a problem?
The ACLU might see the problem with busting criminals, but I just don't get it...........

 

[Alpo]

Here too - You have to give consent to use most ranges.

I don't see the problem. No one busted the door down to someone's Baby Momma Section 8 *house* to do the checks.
These idiots go to a range and act like fools and get checked for warrants, felon in possession, etc. and there's a problem?
The ACLU might see the problem with busting criminals, but I just don't get it...........

He didn't say they just checked the idiots. He said "DFG and ATF agents were dong a firearms check on everyones guns..."

So, there you are at the range. Joe Good-citizen. Cop comes up and wants to see your ID, and check your guns to see they are not illegal and are not stolen, and you don't have a problem with that? It was okay to violate the gangster's rights because they were criminals. How about everyone else at the range, whose rights were also violated? That's okay?

 

[vector16]

What's the DFG?

That piece I bolded - that's about the scariest thing I've ever seen. You are at a legal place to fire a gun, and the cops show up and start checking people's IDs and running their guns? No warrant? No "Probable Cause"? Just - "we're doing it because we can"?

You don't consider that a violation of civil rights, in California?

It was a good thing, because it resulted in the arrest of these "gangster boys"? So the police going into every house in town, checking IDs and running serial numbers of everything that had a number on it, would be a good thing too, because they would undoubtedly catch many criminals.

They are able to do run anyones guns when you are on public land. This range just so happens to be on a Nat'l Forest. if you get stopped by an officer and you have a gun on you, does he run the gun even though you have a CCW? The DFG does not need warrents, the "gangster boys" were acting suspicious, Probable cause.