Interesting day at the range

[nasars]

Today was my second outing with my shield 9.
On first range trip had 2 fte with wwb.
Today had one fte with tulammo, one fte with blazer brass, one fte with wwb, and this with freedom munitions, no sure what to called but a failure to load. Total round count 303. Is 5 fte and on miss load enough cause to contact s&w or is this normal for a breakin period?
Thanks. John

 

[Jabbit]

Did you take it apart and clean it thoroughly before firing it? If not, I suggest doing that NOW and checking for anything that looks off.

 

[nasars]

thoroughly cleaned and lubed before 1st range session

 

[walkin' trails]

Make sure that you're not getting solvent and lube up into the firing pin channel because it will trap carbon and cause gunk buildup, although it would it takes a lot of rounds to cause enough carbon to do so. Neverthless, gunk in the firing pin channel effects the striker and may cause light strikes.

You had FTFs with several different brands, but I don't know that five would be enough to cause me to send the pistol back for warranty. Remember that right now the ammo manufacturers are struggling to keep up with demand, and you may have just had the luck to get five bad primers. Did you look at the imprint on the primers of the rounds that did not fire? If its a full indention similar to others that did go bang, then its the primers. Personally I'd shoot so more thru it before deciding it has problems. I'd stick with one brand of ammo for that test, and shoot at least a couple hundred. The round that did not feed propery could be a number of thing, but again the real thing to watch out for is a pattern. It could be a round not loaded to spec. When you drop the slide, are you using the slide release lever or pulling back and letting it go, sling-shot style. Either should be sufficient.

 

[nasars]

walkin trails, I did not have any failure to fires they were all failures to
to extract. (fte). if I used the wrong termimlogy I'm sorry. It seemed like the extracter didnt catch the lip of the round.
Hope that makes more sense.

 

[robkarrob]

Completely different. Since there were only a few fail to eject/jams, the chances are it could be operator induced if you do not keep very firm wrists and arms, to keep the gun from excessively flipping up. If the gun flips up too fast, it can cause the slide to slow down, which can cause failure to eject, and failure to load, and both can be called jams when the fired casing or unfired cartridge gets wedged between the barrel/ramp and the breech.

Next time at the range try to keep the wrists and arms locked fairly tight, to prevent the gun from flipping up. The muzzle is going to go up some, but try to keep it at a minimum. This excessive flip is a major cause for FTE and FTL. It can be ammo related, but since you are using different ammo, that reduces the chance that all the ammo is causing the problem.

Bob

 

[marlin.357]

Good advice, I'd go with limp wristing, but it could also be dirt under the extractor hook, a damaged extractor hook, or weak extractor spring.

However I doubt the round in the photo was damaged by the gun, actually I'd bet a cup of coffee that round came out of the box looking like that. Not common, but not unknown. Most reloaders have done that a time or two....

 

[nasars]

I dont feel like I'm limp wristing, but anything is possible. I was using a uplula loader so I could have pulled it from the box like that, but I doubt it, the casing was very wrinkled and the bullet was very wobbly, I suspect that it was enough out round that it wouldnt feed into the barrel. I'm not being sarcastic but if limp wristing is the problem with ejection, what is going to happen if I ever get in a gun fight(heaven forbib). I'm sure that I'm not going to be rock steady like I try to be at the range. I really like this gun, but it puts a little doubt in the back of my mind about reliabality. If the ejector spring is a little weak, how do you test for this, and how easy is it to replace?
Thanks John

 

[marlin.357]

I was using a uplula loader so I could have pulled it from the box like that, but I doubt it, the casing was very wrinkled and the bullet was very wobbly, I suspect that it was enough out round that it wouldnt feed into the barrel.

As I read you first post I thought it didn't feed into the chamber, at least that's what I thought you meant by "failure to load".

I'm not being sarcastic but if limp wristing is the problem with ejection, what is going to happen if I ever get in a gun fight(heaven forbib). I'm sure that I'm not going to be rock steady like I try to be at the range.

Well, first practice, second, practice some more, third, practice some more. If you still get failures to eject, give S&W a call, they will want you to send it in for a checkup and repair if necessary.

I really like this gun, but it puts a little doubt in the back of my mind about reliabality. If the ejector spring is a little weak, how do you test for this, and how easy is it to replace?
Thanks John

First unload the gun, then check again, then remove the slide, recoil spring & barrel. Examine the EXTRACTOR for dirt, brass shavings or anything keeping the EXTRACTOR from moving freely and the hook for chips, an eye loupe or other magnification will help. If everything looks OK then with the slide, recoil spring, and barrel still removed, slide a loaded cartridge under the extractor hook, it shoud stay there, and you shouldn't be able to shake it off easily. If it won't stay or shakes off easily the spring tension is too loose or the extractor is damaged. Fairly easy to replace, but if you find a problem, Call S&W, they will fix it for you.

Good Luck!

 

[noammo]

I don't know man, I wouldn't shoot the gun until a gun smith or S&W looked at those damaged ammo pictures. My wife had limp wrist issues at first but never damaged the ammo like your gun does. Just my opinion...

 

[Rastoff]

OK, he's had several Failures to Extract(FTE) and one Failure to Feed(FTF). All the rounds that fed have fired. All the rounds that extracted were ejected. Am I correct so far?

So, a FTE cannot be caused by "limp wristing". It is a simple mechanical action accomplished by the Extractor. To that end, I need a clarification to be sure we're talking about the same thing. Did the case stay in the chamber or were you really having a Type II or "Stovepipe" malfunction? A Type II could be caused by limp wristing, but a FTE is not.

Assuming the case is staying in the chamber, call S&W. You should not have one FTE in 500 rounds let alone 5 in 300. Actually, the gun should go thousands without a FTE.

The crushed round is also a tell tale sign. That cannot be caused by limp wristing either. You may have a problem with your chamber. Can you post a picture of the chamber?

Even if there is a problem with the chamber, we can't fix that. That will definitely have to go back to S&W.

 

[nasars]

Marlin 357, the pic that I have posted is of one round that did fail to load,, it was jammed sideways into the breach and never did fully load into the barrel, I think maybe it was out of round enough that the lip of the shell caught on the edge of the barrel. It was a round from freedom munitions, if I remember correctly they sell reloads. I will be checking the rest more closely from now on. The rest of the rounds that were fte, all fired fine, just did not eject. I stripped gun and there was a tiny bit of gunk under extracter hook, after cleaning it held a round pretty snuggly, round did not fall out with shaking. Hopefully this solved my problem, I will be scheduling some more range time soon.
Thanks for the advice.
John

 

[nasars]

Rastoff, not sure what a Type II malfunction is but this is what I'm calling a fte, the round was not ejected from the gun before the next round was to load, the round was pulled from the barrel but not ejected from the gun, the next round then jammed against the just fired casing.. I hope that makes sense, if I'm describing something besides a fte, sorry for the misuse of terms.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is a common mistake in terminology between Extract and Eject. No biggie, I get it now.

There are three basic malfunctions; Type I, II and III:
A Type I is a click rather than a bang. Two possible causes; nothing in the chamber or a dud round. Fix is to tap on the magazine and rack the slide.

A Type II is a Failure to Eject or a Stovepipe. It looks like this:

I believe this is your problem. It can certainly can be caused by limp wristing.

A Type III is a Failure to Extract which causes a double feed. It happens when the round is not extracted from the chamber and then next round tries to feed behind it. It looks like this:

This is not what you describe so, I don't think it's your issue.

Now, based on what you've clarified, I think your crushed shell was just an anomaly and more likely was caused at the ammo manufacturer. I have seen that before both from a damaged chamber and from the manufacturer. I'd still like to see a pic of your chamber.


A note on terminology: (not trying to be a smart alec)
Extract - This is the action of drawing the case out of the chamber. It is accomplished by the Extractor grabbing the case rim and pulling it out of the chamber.

This case is being extracted:

Eject - This is the action of Ejecting the case from the gun through the port in the slide. The extractor pulls the case straight back out of the chamber. The head of the case then hits the Ejector as the slide reaches the back of its travel.

This case is being ejected:

 

[checkmyswag]

Rastoff, good illustrations.

Sounds like limp wristing to me. Have someone else shoot it?

Run some quality ammo through it?

 

[Ransom]

I had a similar number of failures to eject with my new Shield (June '12). After several hundred rounds it became 100%. I don't know if I was limp wristing it or it needed to break in a bit. I have not had any kind of failure with it for many months and hundreds of rounds.

 

[nasars]

Rastoff, thanks for the clarification, I'm am definatly having Type II malfunctions. Apparently I'm limp wristing more than I realize. I will try to post some pics of the chamber this pm. Thanks for all the help.
John

 

[Deacon KC]

I would also consider that the damaged round may have been caused by hitting and driving out a case that hadn't cleared, since that seems to be the main problem right now.

 

[Rastoff]

It has been my experience that Type II malfunctions are most common with small guns. I'm just guessing, but I'll bet it's due to the small size and not much grip surface.

 

[nasars]

Rastoff, here are pics, I hope they show what you wanted. Thanks everybody for the comments and advice.

 

[Rastoff]

They do show what I wanted to see. It looks as though your chamber is fine. The breech face look fine as does the extractor.

Deacon KC has a good point. The damage to the casing could have been caused by a round trying to feed when a case was still in the mouth of the chamber. Something like this:

When taken in conjunction with the Type II malfunctions you had, this seems likely.