Is A College Education Really Necessary?
- Thread starter Kanewpadle
- Start date
Degree, no-degree, in the end, if you achieved learning in subject matter that takes great effort to learn and is in demand, you'll earn a decent living.
deadin
US Veteran
How many kids come out of high school knowing what they want to do for the rest of their life? If they want to be a plumber, mechanic, etc., fine go into the trade. (As long as they have the aptitude. I thought I wanted to be a cowboy, but I'm afraid of horses....
. Somehow it wouldn't have worked out..)
Anyway, college shows a prospective employer that one has the drive and the capability of learning. Yes, there are some that a college education is a complete waste on, but that's going to happen anyway. Too bad that there is no way to determine who should be in college and who shouldn't and use the money where it will count.
I've always been amazed at how many people I know with degrees that are not working in the field they studied. My youngest son has a degree in medieval history (How useful is that?) and is great to talk with, but works in an art museum.
. Somehow it wouldn't have worked out..)Anyway, college shows a prospective employer that one has the drive and the capability of learning. Yes, there are some that a college education is a complete waste on, but that's going to happen anyway. Too bad that there is no way to determine who should be in college and who shouldn't and use the money where it will count.
I've always been amazed at how many people I know with degrees that are not working in the field they studied. My youngest son has a degree in medieval history (How useful is that?) and is great to talk with, but works in an art museum.
straightshooter1
US Veteran
I've posted some of this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself.
I'm a high school dropout. Actually that's wrong-I'm a high school kick out.
I was kicked out in the late winter of my senior high school year for skipping too many days. And was told that if I didn't retake my senior year the next year, I'd be out of luck for a HS diploma as they would not allow me to go into the military, then return to high school.
I went into the Army the next day (only because the Marine Recruiter was missing-just didn't show up for work-Thank You, Lord).
In the Army, I got my GED. When I got out, I got a position with my local PD but I was really embarrassed about the GED (many PDs now require a real HS diploma and several require at least an AA but I was there at the right time).
So I went to Junior College, got an AA and discovered I liked it, school, that is (plus the Department accommodated me a bit, putting me on nights, so I was able to go to school). With the Federal LEAP Program (paid my tuition) and the GI Bill, I sort of had a nice thing going.
Got a Bachelors and a Masters, too, and they helped, at least a bit, in making Sergeant. And the AA and BA paid an extra $80 per month. Also got the opportunity to teach at a couple of colleges, in my off-duty time, so that was nice.
But I was really bored, so I tried Law School-gotta have at least a four year Bachelors Degree to get in (everywhere in the US now, I think).
So, I think the Degree(s) help. With my JD from Law School, I got what I realized was, for me, the best job in the world, retired ten years ago, and live a pretty good life now, just waiting for my wife to finish her career in a month or so.
There is a danger that I've seen. That is student loan debt. Before I retired, it was common to interview potential employees who had student loan debt from law school of well over 100k!
I think you gotta figure out what you're gonna potentially make with whatever the degree is, versus what that degree will cost you.
But, for me, I'm happy being the only lawyer you know without a high school diploma.
Bob
I'm a high school dropout. Actually that's wrong-I'm a high school kick out.
I was kicked out in the late winter of my senior high school year for skipping too many days. And was told that if I didn't retake my senior year the next year, I'd be out of luck for a HS diploma as they would not allow me to go into the military, then return to high school.
I went into the Army the next day (only because the Marine Recruiter was missing-just didn't show up for work-Thank You, Lord).
In the Army, I got my GED. When I got out, I got a position with my local PD but I was really embarrassed about the GED (many PDs now require a real HS diploma and several require at least an AA but I was there at the right time).
So I went to Junior College, got an AA and discovered I liked it, school, that is (plus the Department accommodated me a bit, putting me on nights, so I was able to go to school). With the Federal LEAP Program (paid my tuition) and the GI Bill, I sort of had a nice thing going.
Got a Bachelors and a Masters, too, and they helped, at least a bit, in making Sergeant. And the AA and BA paid an extra $80 per month. Also got the opportunity to teach at a couple of colleges, in my off-duty time, so that was nice.
But I was really bored, so I tried Law School-gotta have at least a four year Bachelors Degree to get in (everywhere in the US now, I think).
So, I think the Degree(s) help. With my JD from Law School, I got what I realized was, for me, the best job in the world, retired ten years ago, and live a pretty good life now, just waiting for my wife to finish her career in a month or so.
There is a danger that I've seen. That is student loan debt. Before I retired, it was common to interview potential employees who had student loan debt from law school of well over 100k!
I think you gotta figure out what you're gonna potentially make with whatever the degree is, versus what that degree will cost you.
But, for me, I'm happy being the only lawyer you know without a high school diploma.
Bob
A college education is necessary for many occupations, but too many jobs require a degree when it is not a BFOQ (Bona fide occupational qualifier).
Today, America's institutions of higher learning are committing suicide with the aid of government and private student loan financing.
Entrance requirements have been lowered so far that professors have to reduce their expectations and provide unearned GPAs to keep the "gravy train" from derailing.
College is not a place for you to create a HUGE DEBT profile if you graduated from high school in the lower two-thirds of your class. The crushing financial burden from student loans is not worth the four-plus years wasted enriching a decaying educational system.
The best place for higher learning is the public library, IMHO.
Today, America's institutions of higher learning are committing suicide with the aid of government and private student loan financing.
Entrance requirements have been lowered so far that professors have to reduce their expectations and provide unearned GPAs to keep the "gravy train" from derailing.
College is not a place for you to create a HUGE DEBT profile if you graduated from high school in the lower two-thirds of your class. The crushing financial burden from student loans is not worth the four-plus years wasted enriching a decaying educational system.
The best place for higher learning is the public library, IMHO.
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deadin
US Veteran
But, but, but they don't have party time and happy hour at any library I've found...
You can get a job....
You don't need a college education to get a job. But it sure helps people advance. If you don't have a degree but you are in a field/situation where you can work up with experience, that's good too. Also, if you have your own business, hard work can probably get you more than a college degree.
You don't need a college education to get a job. But it sure helps people advance. If you don't have a degree but you are in a field/situation where you can work up with experience, that's good too. Also, if you have your own business, hard work can probably get you more than a college degree.
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REM 3200
US Veteran
This is what I was told.
I finally got my BS about 20 years after I finished high school.
It really didn't help that much in the Army, but it got me into
a good job once I did retire from the Army.
My Dad's rule of thumb on that was: Don't incur more debt than your prospective salary the first year out of school.
Whitwabit
US Veteran
lot of tradesman's jobs are taught on the job or thru a union training course ..
Son started on a job throwing paper .. and now is a Pressman running what is called a 7 color press printing books and technical manuals for a printing company .. no college .. daughter Accounting College Degree and is a Quality and Implementation Supervisor for a medium size company .. she makes a little bit more with her bonus's then he does right now .. and will far surpass what he will make in his life time .. she is 7 years younger also ..
So college will make a difference in almost all jobs especially the older the person is ..
Me no college and worked in a factory and made more then her before retiring .. Though she will pass what I made a year in the next 2 or 3 years ..
Both will surpass what I made the last year I worked in the next 5 years and are in their mid 40's ..
Son started on a job throwing paper .. and now is a Pressman running what is called a 7 color press printing books and technical manuals for a printing company .. no college .. daughter Accounting College Degree and is a Quality and Implementation Supervisor for a medium size company .. she makes a little bit more with her bonus's then he does right now .. and will far surpass what he will make in his life time .. she is 7 years younger also ..
So college will make a difference in almost all jobs especially the older the person is ..
Me no college and worked in a factory and made more then her before retiring .. Though she will pass what I made a year in the next 2 or 3 years ..
Both will surpass what I made the last year I worked in the next 5 years and are in their mid 40's ..
It has been my experience over 30+ years of adulting that those in professions that reward college degrees but do not have one tend to belittle those who do have a degree, because they think themselves equal or better. In some cases they are correct. Some professions require a college degree, such as education, and I think that's a good thing. My federal job, after I was hired, began to require a master's degree to even interview. To get promoted, I had to agree to complete my Master of Public Administration, which I did. One of the things that a college degree does demonstrate is an ability to learn to think critically and accomplish goals set by others. It demonstrates a commitment to an end, and the ability to achieve the end. Now, several of those degrees come at a high price. I know people in their 40's still paying off student loans at a monthly payment that would buy a four door Jeep and insurance. If the job pays above and beyond that, more power to you. There are very few jobs where the institution you attended actually matters. All the rest just want to see a diploma.
It's all about what you want to do. Plumbers make a lot of money, but they smell a lot of poop . . .
It's all about what you want to do. Plumbers make a lot of money, but they smell a lot of poop . . .
Ghost Magnum
Member
I need a college degree to get the jobs I want. I got to go back if I like it or not. I already had a bad experience with one college. I'm going to try a different one next year.
I spent almost 30 years working in Human Resources for a Fortune 100 company, primarily in staffing, and I can tell you that this is correct. We had a large hourly work force, and for those positions a college degree was usually desired but not required ( high school diploma or equivalent was required.) It was an almost universal requirement to have a college degree for any management position, which in some cases didn't have to be specifically relevant. Disciplines like engineering, finance, or legal, for example, required relevant education, but general management positions just stated a degree was required for external hires; internal moves and/or promotions in these areas usually stated a college degree was desired but not required. It was a discriminator between similarly qualified candidates.
My own background was an example. I was a Navy corpsman, and upon discharge, had intended to go to medical school. So, I got my degree in Biology. When I graduated, though, I was exhausted and broke, having worked full time while going to school full time, so I decided to work for a year or two before going further. A family friend who was in management with this company knew they were seeking individuals with college degrees for their management training program: an individual with any degree would go into the training program, be assigned to three six-month tours in various areas of administrative management, and then be placed (if successful) in one of those areas. My three tours were in Operations, Regulatory Affairs, and Human Resources. I loved working in HR, so I was placed there and remained there for the rest of my career.
Amusing anecdote: I was interviewing for an internal promotion at one point, and the hiring manager asked about my degree being in Biology. His specific question was, "That's very interesting, do you keep up any hobbies in your field?" I told him that my area of concentration was in Human Anatomy and Physiology, so my wife objected to any hobbies in that area. (He didn't get it...but I did get the job.)
I think it is a tragedy how many kids borrow money via student loans to pay for college but never get a degree. They are just saddled with debt.
I think the barrier, the hurdles, to get into college should be a lot higher, so as to ensure a higher liklihood of graduation. I don't think it is doing kids who are likely to never complete college any favors by making it easy to attend college via borrowed money. I think it is predatory lending.
How about no student loans to students at colleges that have a graduation rate of less than, say, 85%?
I also believe college is just not for everyone, and it is foolish to pretend, or set an expectation, that it is. The skilled trades are valuable professions in our society and deserving of society's respect, and young people's ambition.
Anyway, them's my two cents worth on the topic.
I think the barrier, the hurdles, to get into college should be a lot higher, so as to ensure a higher liklihood of graduation. I don't think it is doing kids who are likely to never complete college any favors by making it easy to attend college via borrowed money. I think it is predatory lending.
How about no student loans to students at colleges that have a graduation rate of less than, say, 85%?
I also believe college is just not for everyone, and it is foolish to pretend, or set an expectation, that it is. The skilled trades are valuable professions in our society and deserving of society's respect, and young people's ambition.
Anyway, them's my two cents worth on the topic.
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I took my chances without a college degree. I did have 2 years of college in a civil engineering program but I wouldn't really call that a college degree.
I did OK. I was making around 75K when I retired about 4 years ago. What I did was a physical outside job in all kinds of weather. Not many people would look at that as a desirable job these days.
The trades is where the work is now. A 2 year trade program or apprenticeship will set you up to make some serious money if you don't mind getting dirty and working in miserable conditions. Not many people want to do that these days.
College is fine if you can get a degree without accumulating a lot of debt. That's the killer right there.
I did OK. I was making around 75K when I retired about 4 years ago. What I did was a physical outside job in all kinds of weather. Not many people would look at that as a desirable job these days.
The trades is where the work is now. A 2 year trade program or apprenticeship will set you up to make some serious money if you don't mind getting dirty and working in miserable conditions. Not many people want to do that these days.
College is fine if you can get a degree without accumulating a lot of debt. That's the killer right there.
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ChuckS1
US Veteran
I think it was Patches O'Houlihan who had the last word on what's "necessary".
I'm grateful that I had the GI Bill.
I went to school on the GI Bill, and worked full time to pay my living expenses and buy my books. When I graduated, I didn't have any debt whatsoever. Our oldest son got a scholarship which paid his tuition and books, but we paid his living expenses. (He didn't go summers, and worked during the summers to help out.) Our middle son didn't want to go to college, and is currently managing a Sonic. Our youngest son spurned our help...he was (and still is) so stubborn and independent, and was determined to do everything on his own. He's still paying on his student loans some 15 years later. I think he regrets it now, but he wouldn't admit if for anything.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
The only people I see working in the trades in the Northern Virginia/DC/Maryland area usually don't speak English and get handwritten 1099s at the end of the day.
Interesting topic. There are many examples of people with and without a degree being highly successful and less successful. Selecting the right career, working hard and smart, and being in the right place at the right time all can be factors. And I think being able to get along with people and work as a part of a team are critical. They were for me.
I have a four degree at a large state university. I worked one or two part time jobs to keep my student loan debt down.
I was an average student, at best.
I really never used that degree much at all in my 39 year corporate career.
That degree most certainly "got me the job that started my career"
Had I not gone to college, I'm not sure what I would have done, but it's certain I would not have been as successful.
I have a four degree at a large state university. I worked one or two part time jobs to keep my student loan debt down.
I was an average student, at best.
I really never used that degree much at all in my 39 year corporate career.
That degree most certainly "got me the job that started my career"
Had I not gone to college, I'm not sure what I would have done, but it's certain I would not have been as successful.
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