Is gunsmithing a dying art?

[John Frederick Bell]

As somebody who's looking at the pointy end of graduating this May with a gunsmithining ticket I'd hope it's not a dying field. That said, there's some complicating factors here.

A good deal of this question depends on what services are required.

Good stockmakers? They're out there. Same for good machinists, good refinishing outfits, and custom rifle builders. I'd venture a guess that a customer could have the same work done on a gun today as he could twenty years ago - the trick is finding all those services under the same roof.

Before I started here I used to wonder where all the graduates were going. Figure an average of 10-15 newly-minted gunsmiths heading out the door every year from this school alone...seems like the shortage wouldn't be so bad.

Thing is, a lot of my class (which can fairly be called competent, if green) are looking at work with the big names. Instead of thinking about opening their own shop they're either angling for a spot with some of the manufacturers, looking into government agencies that need armorers, or trying to get on with a shop that's already got an established name.

This doesn't do much for the dearth of small-town gunsmithing operations, I admit, but it is what it is.

 

[Kobold_27]

"Quote: 'Is gunsmithing a dying art?"

YES.
-----------------------------------------

I am so thankful that my Father's avocation is that of Gunsmithing. He has taught me a lot over the years. My interest in it naturally grew and I have sought out more knowledge for myself. I have not had the luxury of going to a proper trade school, which I want to do so very much it is on my bucket list.

Please check out this guy and his compatriots at AGI, American Gunsmithing Institute:

Meet Your Gunsmithing Instructor | American Gunsmithing Institute

I own nearly every DVD that has Bob Dunlap's name on it, even if I don't own the gun. He's one of the last of the Grand Masters and I fear that once he's gone, no one will ever replace him. I sure hope I get to meet him one day.

I can detail strip any Smith & Wesson revolver down to its last bits, tune the action, straighten a bent ejector rod (properly), etc. I didn't learn all this from the AGI videos, but they are just plain fun for me to watch and rather soothing when I'm stressed out, which nowadays is far too often. I have found good deals on AGI videos on Midway and Ama-zone (check spelling -don't want those guys in on any profits from me).

I strongly suggest getting the Jerry Kuhnhausen books and every last one of the Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks books if you can! There are some really great free videos on Brownell's website and on U-tube as well, just be careful who the source is in U-tube.

There are many other sources out there, but we warned, it can very likely become an addiction. As an example, there are Gunsmithing tools that I have spent several hundred dollars on that I have used exactly ONCE. Such tools made all the difference in the world and I was able to produce truly professional results. Although once my Dad and friends learned that I had it, err.. uhh.., such a tool, they wanted to borrow it. In one case, I still have never gotten one such tool back from my Dad; oh well, I know where he lives!

I believe that the only way that we can bring back Gunsmithing is from the ground roots up. I love AR platform rifles, but let's face it, they are like building Erector stets. A true Gunsmith, NOT ME, but the real deal can build a gun with a file, flame, and a hammer (maybe a couple other tools...).

I wish I lived in different times.

Not sure what I have contributed to this post, other than I encourage all of you to get cracking on your own projects, from building an AR to maybe even finding an old beat up Smith and taking it apart and learning on your own.

It's better than watching broadcast TV with 3 minute segments of show jammed between 6 minutes of tepid commercials!

Best,

Michael

 

[Kobold_27]

As somebody who's looking at the pointy end of graduating this May with a gunsmithining ticket I'd hope it's not a dying field. That said, there's some complicating factors here.

A good deal of this question depends on what services are required.

Good stockmakers? They're out there. Same for good machinists, good refinishing outfits, and custom rifle builders. I'd venture a guess that a customer could have the same work done on a gun today as he could twenty years ago - the trick is finding all those services under the same roof.

Before I started here I used to wonder where all the graduates were going. Figure an average of 10-15 newly-minted gunsmiths heading out the door every year from this school alone...seems like the shortage wouldn't be so bad.

Thing is, a lot of my class (which can fairly be called competent, if green) are looking at work with the big names. Instead of thinking about opening their own shop they're either angling for a spot with some of the manufacturers, looking into government agencies that need armorers, or trying to get on with a shop that's already got an established name.

This doesn't do much for the dearth of small-town gunsmithing operations, I admit, but it is what it is.

I think that I would like to talk to you my friend. I'm on what looks like my third career. I believe exactly as you say, finding it all under one roof is very difficult. Perhaps we could do some research for some help from NRA or GOA and get something going? Please PM me if you want to talk some time.

Best,

Michael

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I think that our current society is not producing the "type of personality" folks that have "what it takes" as we once did.

 

[Skeet 028]

From one who used to do a fair amount of gun work... I can also tell you gunsmithing has changed. It used to be very hard to make a living for anyone with a family. I did mostly shotgun and some handgun work. My best income was from the everyday work...cleaning sights replacement of parts and fixing the stuff the owners screwed up. There was no way to really make money back then building a rifle from a military to custom . The market was there in some small degree but for half the price or less you could buy a nice commercial sporter or Varmint gun. But I came along in the 60s and later after the big changes in firearms came along. Now..it is plastic guns. The major portion of gun owners have changed these days. Use one for a while and trade it in like a used car.

 

[finesse_r]

I have to think that anything that involves serious custom work or detailed repair work is becoming extinct. The work required to become a good Gun Smith is too time consuming for our texting generation. If they can’t learn to do it in two minutes or less they just move on.

Patience, concentration, and problem solving are qualities any good gun smith, or any good auto mechanic, or any good watch repair man should have. These are qualities that the texting generation don’t have for the most part.

Also our work force is changing from what was the USA prior to 1970, and what the USA is fast becoming since congress in 1965 radically changed the legal goals immigration from keeping the same homogeneous culture to changing our culture to a multi-cultural society.

The culture that would produce such craftsmen is fast becoming extinct.

 

[the ringo kid]

There are only three smiths in my area that I'm aware of. One is semi-retired...and his last name IS Smith. I'm not sure if his son is taking the reins or not? but he's done some great work through the years. I only know of two grip makers here in my area. One just did an excellent set of custom grips for me and fitted them to Sabrina's gun yesterday.

 

[John Frederick Bell]

Here thar be opinion and hyperbole and all that fun stuff.

***

I take exception to the idea that the present generation is unwilling to learn. To the contrary...those in my class will generally go several extra miles if need be in the interest of pulling off a complex project properly.

Most of them have smart phones. Doesn't seem to hurt their work any more than some jobs I've seen done by the old hands.

Three things, however, must be stated.

First, for a man to do anything he must have an incentive. Many of us have no desire to do custom Mauser work because it was a requirement - spend $300 on a rifle to cut up, $200 on a stock, $200 more on a barrel blank, and too many smaller expenses and too much shop time to tally. For brevity, let us say that this sporterization process dumps $1500 (on the low end) into a rifle that may sell for $400 on a good day.

In a school environment this is felt less, but a man running his own shop has to pay off his lathe, mill, bluing tanks, and keep the lights on. There's no percentage in the relatively low returns he'll be making while trying to build a name. Unless he's independently wealthy (and if so, why would he open a gunshop?) he's going to starve long before he reaps any benefits of his skills.

Some might build another if the custom was willing to pay what it was worth. But all these things - the machine work, the hand-fitting of parts, the custom stock, and those lovely presentation-grade finishes - demand a great deal of time and benchwork, and when you add up what is required and what it will cost your average shooter would sooner buy a Remington 700 - which he can get in any caliber, barrel length, and a variety of finishes, new in the box, in the $500-600 range.

There are men out there who can do all these things, and do them well. They will not do these things for starvation wages. Especially when they've got to make a living, support a family, and pay off school debts.

Second, the program here is two years. You hit the ground running and don't stop until they hand you your diploma. What can you learn in two years? Quite a bit - but not everything. Later in the program as the core courses wrap up (and into the third-year program) you begin to see students pursuing the gunsmithing aspects for which they have an appreciation and an aptitude. Some veer towards machining. Some show promise as repairmen. Some live in the bluing shop. Most have a primary skill and a secondary, but very rarely will you find one who can do everything with equal aplomb. Due to logistical snarls and executive meddling, some subjects meant to be covered in depth barely got touched. That's how it goes.

A man who's been at this business the better part of thirty years may rightly rate the title of master gunsmith. These guys don't have thirty years. They have two to three. They are the equivalents of freshly-minted private pilots - the basics are all there, but mastery takes time.

There is one final item to consider. The shooting sports have changed dramatically in the past twenty years. Some of these changes I like, some I don't. Doesn't matter - nobody asked me. My choice is to go with it or not.

Part of this is, I believe, a result of guns like the AR-15 and Gaston Glock's peculiar invention. Anybody with an internet connection can figure out how to build or modify the above. Everything's modular, the customization options are nigh-endless with a minimum of tools, and it's entirely possible to work through an entire gun without having to fit a single part.

The same people who bolt together an AR on their coffee table (no offense intended) tend to balk at the idea of any operation that requires actual gunsmithing skill. Why pay for a custom 1911 when a Glock goes bang every time, requires no break-in, and retails for a fraction of the cost? Moreover, when presented a price sheet for a gun where this is not the case, a customer who's used to living in a drop-in world will be the first to complain about gouging.

The reason a good gunsmith is a fair rarity these days is because most people like having food and shelter on a pretty regular basis, and so will either follow what the consumer wants or see those three hots and cot start slipping away. Much as it pains me to say, the four old guys at the shop who buy one new pre-war Smith every year or so won't keep the lights on. The hordes of tactical shooters who are forever buying ammo and doodads to hang on their mall ninja toys will.

Notice also that those who DO keep that old tradition - the guys who can bring any gun back from splinters and scrap iron or build a custom 1911 that's Glock-reliable - can charge an arm and a leg and still not hurt for business. People whine...people complain...Turnbull, Wilson Combat, and Bowen keep on keeping on.

 

[Skeet 028]

I agree with most of what the previous poster wrote. I learned much of my gunsmithing as an apprentice for periods of time with an old time general gunsmith. He was one of the most cantankerous people I ever met...even before he started teaching me. I knew good work so he didn't have to tell me what was wrong. When I got it right and he picked on my work it was a bit hard to take..I know how to do the stuff I need to do on my guns..but I have a nice little Ithaca that is somewhat rare..So to clean it up and make it really presentable...it is going to Turnbull. I know my limittions and am willing to pay for good work. Of course the gun is worth quite a bit. Turnbull has some great people working for him. Also have a Wilson. He has great people working for him. Can I make one as good as his...Maybe but when I get it done it will have the same or maybe more workin it. Will it be worth what a Wilson goes for. Nope...It ain't a Wilson. Takes a long time to get a good name... mess up one gun..a short time to lose that trust

 

[bushmaster1313]

Is gunsmithing a dying art?

It's certainly contracting.

On the other hand. The Internet allows craftsmen to serve a national market.

When I need work on an old Ithaca there are two shops in central New York State that do a great job.

When I wanted to have a 1950's Winchester Model 12 go through its half century scheduled maintenance, I sent it to a Model 12 expert in Ohio who replaced any springs that needed changing and made sure that the timing and headspace was spot on.

There will likely be fewer and fewer who can do good work, but the ones who can do good work will be able to reach a larger market.

One thing that many don't appreciate is that firearms can be shipped to an FFL for repair and directly back to the owner. United States Post Office will accept long guns from a non FFL but a non FFL cannot ship a handgun via the Post Office. If you have your own box and bubble wrap, it costs about $35-$40 each way to ship a $1000 shotgun USPS Priority Mail with full insurance. Some UPS and FedEx shops will let a non FFL ship a handgun, but I think they require it to go by Air, which costs more.

 

[Skeet 028]

Actually I think there are more good gunsmiths but as was said previously..many specialize. Many specialists are great with guns they like. Did a lot of work on shotguns back east..but didn't like working on Browning Auto 5s. LOL M-12 Winchesters were my favorites to work on as were 1100s and their ilk. I did a lot of rust bluing esp on M-12s.