Is pistol marksmanship a lost art?

[Len]

Let me preface this question by admitting that the tendency to sound arrogant by asking is a real danger!

I shoot routinely at several ranges, some public, some private, usually employing a mix of revolvers and semi-autos. Most of these locations do not allow rapid fire. So people are basically required to be taking carefully aimed shots.

It seems to me that the average marksmanship displayed is dismal! The majority of shooters are blasting at targets less than 15 feet away, and are lucky to get one or two shots anywhere near the X-ring, much less on target at all. [Coupled with all the errant shots that pepper the walls and ceilings, you get the picture.]

Again, I'm no McGivern...and I know the current thinking is to practice "short," since that will probably be the most likely defensive distance, but....

I still remember the old shooter that really helped me out. He was a big proponent of starting short, working out to max distance, and then coming back in. A real believer in practicing at 25 yards, and doing it until you could get skilled with it.

On one "recreational" range trip he told me to hold on shooting, ran a target out to 25 yards, and told me to take a cold shot. "If you can't do that first time, you know what you need to practice."

He used to say that "if you train and score long, you will ace short."

Now granted, shooting at the range is supposed to be fun [among other things.] But isn't the point to get the bullet on target? Isn't the skill achieved by consistent practice something to aspire to? [Making the whole session a lot more fun, too!]

Are you seeing the same thing? What do you think is the reason?

Len

 

[deadin]

My idea of fun at the range is to run through a National Match course of fire a couple of times and, when I was shooting Free Pistol, to run through a course of fire of 60 shots in 60 minutes. (I usually rushed it and was done in 30 or 40 minutes.)
Unfortunately, when at a public range, I usually ended up next to someone whose idea of fun was how many rounds per hour they could get down range. if it wasn't at least 3 or 4 hundred, they went away disappointed....

 

[kraigwy]

I don't think pistol craft is a lost art at all. In fact I think it's improved over the years. Just take in some of the action style matches to see what I mean.

Go to an ICORE match, those guys are amazing.

As to past shooters, I don't know, reminds me of the saying "the older I get, the better I was."

 

[cracker57]

I know I lost it, oh wait you have to have it to loss it
Cracker

 

[old bear]

Traditional, pistol, target shooting as many of us remember no longer has the emphasis it once did. Today much of the emphasis is on defensive shooting, i.e. keeping a set number of rounds inside a 3” – 6” circle in the center of your target at 10’ – 30’ as quickly as possible. Today the main purpose of my firearms is to protect my family and myself if the need should ever arise; I spend much more practice time working on my S/D shooting.
As others have posted I do have a problem with shooters who run their target out 10 feet and proceed to do nothing but mag dumps with no concern where their rounds end up or who they shower with hot brass.

 

[LTC]

I have some of the same opinions as the OP. The indoor range at our pistol club has a steel backstop about 7' high. We have baffles at 7, 10 & 15 yards. they are all well over 7' off the floor. The backstop is at 50 feet.

The bottom 6" of the baffles have been shot away in some positions. We have bullet holes as high as 8' in the 10 & 15 yard baffles. I am no expert either but I can manage to keep all shots on an 8.5 x 11" paper at 50'. The average aiming height off the floor should be between 5' and 5'6" when firing from a standing position. How difficult is it to position a target and aim parallel to the floor?

It is disheartening to go to the range and find a shovel full of fresh wood splinters littering the range floor.

LTC

 

[mstuhr]

Hi Len

Hi Len,
I see the same things that you do at the range.
I also notice that police departments have moved the targets in and become more generous in scoring. I guess this gives a false sense of ability and allows departments to show officer Jones "Qualified expert" at the stray bullet hit a little kid in the head trial. This is not meant to be a insult or reflection on all cops. But most departments have those that have trouble qualifying, and would have a lot more if they had any expectation of proficiency at 25 yards.
I saw it in IPSC, and in some of the folks I have been around that switched from bowling pins and steel plates to PPC or bulls eye. Some of the fastest shooters fell apart at distance. Most all of the top IPSC shooters are capable of 25-50 yard accuracy.That's what separates them from the just fast guys
I think it was in Brian Enos book, that a person should end his practice with 25-50 yard groups, and practice what you are bad at instead of repeating what you have already mastered. I think that was good advice.
I think your old shooting buddy gave you good advice.
As far as the reasons, I'd have to guess.
I often read that most shootouts occur at 7 yards or under. I see that in print quite a bit and assume most folks banging away in close are in prep for CCW (Non IDPA) and feel a man size target at 20 feet or less is good enough.
I think CCW has put a lot of new pistol shooter at the range too. That might be part of the reason why.
Peer pressure could be some of it. Folks want to do what they can and not be at the range missing the 25 yard targets in front of others.
I know from years of encouraging others to compete in various disciplines that it is hard to get someone to start shooting in front of others because of their fear that they will look bad.
On the other hand, I have seen a small resurrection of bulls eye in the area along with some PPC matches popping up. I also run in to folks practicing for these and improving their skills.
I'd blame the CCW guys for what we see, due to their numbers and lack of interest in sports involving longer range shooting.
On the other hand I think some of them will graduate to longer ranges and more challenging shooting.
Just remember. All this opinion comes from a guy who in 1970 sat at the first pump your own gas station in southern MO and said "Pump your own gas? This will never catch on".
Have a nice week end.
Mike

 

[LL617]

how to improve

As a new shooter, what do you recommend to improve shooting skill?

Presently, I am trying to shoot once a week at an indoor range starting with shooting two grouping with the target out about 15 feet, then 25 feet, and then about 40 feet. I am consciously trying to maintain a good stance, a proper grip, and follow the basics of good gun safety as I take aim and fire.

I am also looking to find the plastic or practice bullets so that I can practice drawing, aiming, and shooting at a target at home--no actual firing in the house, of course.

What else do you recommend?

 

[bobbyd]

I wouldn't tend to call it arrogance as much as pride in accomplishment.

I am an old bullseye shooter who learned solid marksmanship fundamentals years ago and these are still applicable no matter which shooting exercise one pursues.

I too am amazed at the generally dismal level of shooting skills one encounters at a typical range where blasting away at 7 yard zombie targets and only hitting the paper 50% of the time is all too common.

I can still outshoot 90+% of the shooters at the range even with my aging eyes. ("The older I get, the better I was." would only apply if I could not still do it!)

Running the target out to 25 yards and chewing the center out of the black bullseye is still more my idea of skill than a high shots-per-hour score.

Shooting is meant to be a recreational pursuit and I guess it really doesn't matter...BUT...what does bother me is that the same observations seem to apply equally to police and security company groups that also utilize the range.

 

[johngross]

The first two times I took the wife shooting, it was standing with a two-handed hold. Once I knew she was comfortable with recoil and understood the fundamentals, it's now one-handed shooting.

No sissies at the Gross household. Both the wife and I stand on our hind legs and shoot like a man

John Gross

 

[Rule3]

As a new shooter, what do you recommend to improve shooting skill?

Presently, I am trying to shoot once a week at an indoor range starting with shooting two grouping with the target out about 15 feet, then 25 feet, and then about 40 feet. I am consciously trying to maintain a good stance, a proper grip, and follow the basics of good gun safety as I take aim and fire.

I am also looking to find the plastic or practice bullets so that I can practice drawing, aiming, and shooting at a target at home--no actual firing in the house, of course.

What else do you recommend?

I think what you are doing is excellent. The main thing is constancy. If you have a proper grip and stance then the rest will come with time. Of course if you can afford and have the time more shooting is better. But if not, taking your time and being deliberate is best. As in anything a little bit of good practice is better than a lot of bad practice.

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

I had nothing to shoot but revolvers to shoot growing up. I became, if I may say so, a very good shoot.

I feel todays shooters start off with the semi's, with little of or no trainig on how to shoot, and continue with the spray and pray mentatility.

Went shooting with some co-workers last week. One had a 40, one had a 9, but I hade my Model 42 and K22. I'm twice as old as they are and they were amazed at how well I was shooting.

Shoot my friends 40VE(?) Put a white target up so I could see the holes (hate the balck targets). Aiming like I normally do......fill in rear sight with front sight. Could not hit the white paper???? Had to bring it in to 5 yds, and figured the semi was shooting about 6 inches low from POA. Owner was happy just hitting the black body.

Trying to talk him into purchasing a 22 so he can shoot more and develop some skills.

Gotta know KY windage and elevation to be a really good shot.

 

[beach elvis]

I agree with the OP. Laugh if you feel you must, but one of my very favorite things to do at my private range is to shoot my revolvers at 25 yd.-size targets but out to 100 yds.

Do I expect to hit? No, but it doesn't stop me from trying my hardest. Have I hit? Yes. It's a fabulous way to really test how your gun likes a particular load and once you find the sweetspot, you just may surprise yourself. Is it practical? Of course not...BUT...I can tell you that if you spend an hour shooting at that distance, a target at 25 yds. seems like almost point-blank.

I truly love it.

 

[Smith357]

I agree with the OP, I'm no expert pistolero but I do enjoy eat out the centers of my bullseye targets at 10 and 25 yards with slow deliberate fire. My Model 14 with wadcutters makes it all to easy to achieve picture perfect groups. I'm still working at 50 yard groups but I can only hit a paper plate about 50% of the time, but to me that's rifle territory.

I have seen many young pups at the range in their tack gear with plastic wonder nines shoot patterns on silhouette targets at 3 to 7 yards. They often show interset in my shooting and when they do I will try to help them as best I can. To be fair, I think the problem is because of the lack of any sort of youth shooting programs. When I was a boy we had the Scouts, 4H, and even public schools helping to teach proper shooting techniques. Today all the youth really have is Hollyweird to learn from.

 

[Herknav]

I'm not that good of a shot, but I can consistently score "expert" on the AF course of fire. After the last time I shot, we were in the CATM building cleaning pistols. Like a dummy, I asked the instructor (in front of all my fellow students) how many folks in our class shot expert. Usually, there are 2-3 guys. His response, "Just you, sir."

 

[Steve in Vermont]

At one time my scores were important and I enjoyed the competition. Now that I'm older, with eyes less then perfect and arthritis in my hands (and elsewhere) I simply enjoy the fact that I can still go to the range and hit the targets with reasonable accuracy. For those my age and older I'm preaching to the choir. For you younger folks, someday you'll go from being concerned about a top score to being grateful you can still shoot. Pass the Advil, then the ammo.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

If you read Ed McGivern's book you will see he says the principles of slow fire apply just as much to rapid fire, the only difference being the time taken.
Also with the decline of Bullseye and target shooting and the rise of "defensive" shooting too many people think as as long as you get a lot of lead in the air in the direction of the enemy you're bound to hit something.
Also I see too much emphasis on technology and gadgets, and not enough on developing skills.

 

[Bat Guano]

Sometime around 1980 or so I went to an NRA police instructors' training course; in those days the revolver still ruled. The class instructor was an old-time Chicago cop we nicknamed "Iron Jaw Jack". He stressed technique and accuracy with sufficient speed--bullseye quality with dispatch. He was big on "ball and dummy" aka "skip loading" as a means of developing trigger control and follow-through, and he convinced me.

I do a lot of it to this day with a Model 18 .22LR and Ruger and S&W double actions, and pass it on to anyone I teach. Not only does it work but it makes the ammo go further and cuts costs. I also believe in shorter, more frequent range sessions rather than massive ammo dumps and pointless noise.

Many days I will settle for firing only 15 rounds in a revolver, 2 mags in a semiauto, or one 20 round mag in an AR; all on paper and all on the timer. Out in the sagebrush I will stretch with pistols to 35-50 yards on steel or pop cans. I know some gifted shots but I have to work at each and every one I fire to hold up my end. It's simple--just not easy.

 

[2152hq]

Off hand, and 25yrd minimum.
We also set a target at 50yrds and one at 100 just to see what we can do. All off hand.

The only standardized sport handgunning I ever did was several years of Bullseye shooting. But it did put into my mind at least some simple minimums I'd expect of myself at different ranges.

Those people down the end of the range that shoot the crank out targets with their handguns are just doing their thing. It's not mine, and mine is obviously not theirs.
I really can't see a sillouette target placed at 15 or 20ft being pounded with mag after mag of 9mm or 40 or whatever from a 2 handed hold. Some even use the bench for a rest or the upright posts for their 'barricade'.
A few hits on the paper scattered about generally brings a smile of 'job well done' to them.
I'd suggest slowing down and learning the basics before running aginst the clock.
Most of their shot-up targets tell me I'd be safe from their fire at most distances if I was their intended victim.

A 50ft NRA indoor slowfire 10ring is about the size of a quarter IIRC.
That makes a good target & distance to see what you can do w/a handgun.
It ain't hollywood though and doesn't make great YouTube clips,,so most don't want to bother.

 

[DGT]

Len: I know exactly what you mean. I usually shoot on my own land but sometimes go to the indoor range which is much closer. I hardly ever see anyone with a bullseye target. Most everyone is shooting those bad-guy posters inside of 7 yards (and doing good to hit them at all) as they empty their guns as fast as they can.

Two thoughts occur to me. 1) Maybe it's a case of life imitating art, thats what they see on TV so thats what they think they should do. 2) I figure, if they are being safe and enjoying shooting, good for them.