Is there something in the water in Texas?....

[hatt]

You guys need to go read it again... it says that it is a felony for unlicensed possession. Concealed Carry is licensed. I can walk past that sign with my carry gun and go buy a six pack of beer at Target.

It is different than the 51% sign, which prohibits CC. That sign is for on premise consumption where revenue from alcohol sales is greater than 50%. You can not carry there, either licensed with conceal carry permit, or open carry.

You're confusing the sign text with the law. Signs are designed with few words to be easy to quickly read. That's why they explicitly spelled out the intention in the link. Did you read the entire link you posted?

 

[hatt]

I had to take it upon myself to research this a little. Found this from an unlikely source.

Laws Affecting TABC-licensed Businesses | Open Carry Texas

Looks like there is much debate on the law. TABC website is poorly written.

 

[cyphertext]

You're confusing the sign text with the law. Signs are designed with few words to be easy to quickly read. That's why they explicitly spelled out the intention in the link. Did you read the entire link you posted?

Here is Texas Law Shield's answer.

https://www.texaslawshield.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=117

I wouldn't want to be the test case.

 

[cyphertext]

I had to take it upon myself to research this a little. Found this from an unlikely source.

Laws Affecting TABC-licensed Businesses | Open Carry Texas

Looks like there is much debate on the law. TABC website is poorly written.

We agree on something!

I don't think OCT has received the AG opinion yet, or at least I haven't seen it posted.

This kind of confusion goes to show we do have a lot of work still regarding firearm rights. It should be clear, where a layman can read it and make the determination...

 

[mark32812]

I feel if Target is anti-gun they need to change their name.

 

[ladder13]

To lighten things up a bit, check out Rifle, CO, yep a town called Rifle. I'm starving


CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

So, Old Mex, Phil, Hatt... simple question, yes or no answer...

If a private business makes a request for you to not bring your firearm into their place of business, you would agree with those who continue to openly carry firearms into that business despite the owner's request?

Another one... simple answer, yes or no...

National chain stores and restaurants creating policies to either restrict guns or request guns not to be carried when such a policy did not previously exist is a win for gun rights?

What is it with you?

Look, the OC groups have had great success in Texas with long guns. It worked. Like it or not, it worked. It aint been perfect. They realize they've had setbacks, and they have since moved on with different tactics. The following groups, OCT, Texas Carry, Come and Take It Texas, and Guns Rights Across America have published a joint standard operating procedure for continued long guns events.


1) Always notify local law enforcement prior to the walk, especially the day of
2) Carry Flags and signs during your walk to increase awareness
3) Carry the long gun on a sling, not held
4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all
5) If asked to leave, do so quietly and do not make it a problem
6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business
7) Do not go into businesses with TABC signs posted with a long gun (Ever)
8) If at all possible, keep to local small businesses that are 2A friendly

----------

These guys aren't as stupid as some may think. Unlike the peanut gallery of complainers, they are fighting to win, learning and changing tactics as they go.

 

[cyphertext]

What is it with you?

Look, the OC groups have had great success in stirring the discussion in Texas with long guns. It worked. Like it or not, it worked. It aint been perfect. They realize they've had setbacks, and they have since moved on with different tactics. The following groups, OCT, Texas Carry, Come and Take It Texas, and Guns Rights Across America have published a joint standard operating procedure for continued long guns events.


1) Always notify local law enforcement prior to the walk, especially the day of
2) Carry Flags and signs during your walk to increase awareness
3) Carry the long gun on a sling, not held
4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all
5) If asked to leave, do so quietly and do not make it a problem
6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business
7) Do not go into businesses with TABC signs posted with a long gun (Ever)
8) If at all possible, keep to local small businesses that are 2A friendly

----------

These guys aren't as stupid as some may think. Unlike the peanut gallery of complainers, they are fighting to win, learning and changing tactics as they go.

That is the stance that the leadership of the organizations has put out... unfortunately, not everyone of their members follows that advice.

You are correct, they have stirred discussions. I guess we will have to just disagree on if that stirring has been helpful or harmful.

 

[TexasArmed]

Did you read my comments at all? Did you miss the part about "All they have to do is post store rules at the entrances." I shouldn't have to spell out that stores, banks, or whatever can put anything they wish on their signs, including "No Guns On Premises" or "No Concealed Weapons on Premises". And I never said a word about having anyone arrested.

Quite a few banks here (my own included), in addition to posting signs, have installed metal detectors. You go in one door and it locks behind you. If you set off the alarm, the next door won't open for you...they won't let you in. You're trapped between two doors, and the next person you talk to will be a hired sheriff's deputy who will make sure you are not armed. My bank hasn't been robbed in probably 15 years or so.

As I said in another post somewhere on this forum, I'm in favor of open carry, just as I support the Second Amendment. I live in an open carry state, but I carry concealed unless I'm at the range and/or participating in a gun-related event.

But just because I'm in favor of OC doesn't mean I'm going to make a fool out of myself in public by carrying an M&P-15 or a tactical shotgun into a department store or restaurant. That accomplishes nothing other than giving the anti-gun folks another reason to keep using the term "gun nut." We don't need any more of that. It's offensive and more than a little discriminatory, as if gun owners are somehow mentally impaired.

I did not miss the part about posted store rules. But State Law of Texas requires that the sign be 30.06 English & Spanish on every entrance and size of lettering to be a certain size. So
calling a deputy will not result in an arrest, they would have to
request the CHL holder leave the premises, and then if he refuses then he could be arrested. Do you not understand that the only two effective notices in Texas signs or 30.06 and 51% that constitute effective notice?

Now those posted rules on one door or a side door
that do not meet the requirements of Texas Law just does not
cut it in Texas. In another post I posted a website that lists a data base of 30.06 signs and 51% signs,
at businesses. This list even has a column as to whether the signs meet the statutory requirement of
Texas Law, on every entrance, certain height lettering and in English and Spanish.

 

[Old TexMex]

TABC doesn't see it that way. You want to be the test case to see who is right?

As a bar owner I can tell you. You are wrong. Stop the BS, or sell it down the street, for heavens sake, READ THE LAW.
You don't even have a TABC certificate as waitstaff, or you'd know it.

 

[Old TexMex]

We agree on something!

I don't think OCT has received the AG opinion yet, or at least I haven't seen it posted.

This kind of confusion goes to show we do have a lot of work still regarding firearm rights. It should be clear, where a layman can read it and make the determination...

So you're talking through your hat again. You DON'T know, you don't have case law, you don't have examples, you only have exposed yourself as a progressive interpreter.

Fraud.

 

[Old TexMex]

TABC doesn't see it that way. You want to be the test case to see who is right?

You sound like a teenager asking me to step out into the parking lot. Childish nonsense, again. No references, case law or examples.

 

[Protected One]

Go down and ask these folks, they're your neighbors.
Michigan Open Carry supporters to hold march, rally at Capitol today | MLive.com

Yep. But notice where they were protesting at?....the State Capital! NOT Target, or some other business.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

That is the stance that the leadership of the organizations has put out... unfortunately, not everyone of their members follows that advice.

Since the four groups posted the long gun procedures, how many members brought long guns into a corporate business without permission, were then asked to leave and refused?

 

[Protected One]

Hit this poll, all is not lost Imagine the good guys getting 45% on that website.

Poll: Do you support Target's new firearms policy? | MSNBC

There IS no new firearms policy. it's the same as its always been. Sure, they "asked" gun owners not to bring them into their store - big deal...they also said their store follow state laws. They won't be searching you or installing metal detectors because they don't care if you are concealed carrying...they just don't want bozos scaring away customers.

 

[Old TexMex]

Our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are an example of a show of force meant to intimidate the enemy. Is that why you are saying you want to carry openly, to intimidate?[ End quote]
........................................


No, you don't understand what an armed citizen might have to do, apparently. You seem to think this is all political theory, but for most of us, it's real. I for one have lived it, and lived it down.
You might cringe at the thought of intimidating a predator, I don't, especially if it avoids violence.




[cyphertext cont.]This is a perfect example of the right way to invoke our second amendment rights... if the government is not living up to the role of providing security, then the people should take up arms and protect themselves. Same thing with our borders... If the fed gov. won't secure them, I see no problem with the Texas Guard and civilian formed militias stepping in to fill that role.[end quote]

............................

The Constitution restricts government from infringing upon the peoples right to K&B. I invoke my 2A rights every day. You do too, if you actually own a firearm.

 

[Old TexMex]

Yep. But notice where they were protesting at?....the State Capital! NOT Target, or some other business.

I guess Rosa Parks was wrong, huh? She should've ridden in the back of the bus to the capitol, silly old gal.

 

[cyphertext]

So you're talking through your hat again. You DON'T know, you don't have case law, you don't have examples, you only have exposed yourself as a progressive interpreter.

Fraud.

I don't know if there is any case law... we didn't have this issue with people carrying long guns into restaurants until recently.

Funny you screaming at me, but the Open Carry Texas posting says that they aren't real sure on it and have asked for the AG to review it.

 

[cyphertext]

I guess Rosa Parks was wrong, huh? She should've ridden in the back of the bus to the capitol, silly old gal.

Not even close to the same thing....

 

[Old TexMex]

Not even close to the same thing....

You have suggested that intimidation of enemies is wrong. Is your gun jewelry? Do you actually understand that some people consider their rights to be important, all rights? You would relegate the 2nd Amendment less important than a seat on a bus? Apparently so. Pity you even represent yourself as a free man, sad.