Is there something in the water in Texas?....

[cyphertext]

I've worn my handgun outside my pants
(the one's with pockets) for more than forty something years.

I have never fighten'd any mothers, children or the elderly.

I notice you have a badge next to your avatar. If you have been wearing your handgun outside your pants in public in Texas, I would bet that you have been wearing a badge next to that handgun... possibly even a leather duty belt rig... perhaps that has something to do with it?

 

[keith44spl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl

I've worn my handgun outside my pants
(the one's with pockets) for more than forty something years.

I have never fighten'd any mothers, children or the elderly.

I notice you have a badge next to your avatar.
If you have been wearing your handgun outside your pants in public in Texas,
I would bet that you have been wearing a badge next to that handgun...
possibly even a leather duty belt rig...
perhaps that has something to do with it?

.
As a matter of fact, I was at the place in Texas a few weeks ago...
Purty much jest rock chunkin distance south of the Red River and the free state of Oklahoma.

When in Texas, and not on official business, no, I don't display my badge and do not open carry.
Although I probably could,(It's that lit'l 'When in Rome' thing)

I do not believe ones profession should take precedents over any other's rights.

Just because I have a badge,
I do not believe that it should be a free pass, to a right,
that rightfully belongs to all law bidding citizens.

I now work in the Commonwealth of Kentucky...
A free state where open carry has always been the order of the day.

Lot of folks open carry, I work with a lot of LEOs that don't display their badges when open carrying.

If folks will think a little bit about how all these concealed carry permitted states came to be.

Was it due to the gun lobby?
The citizens out cry for the right to defend themselves and family?
Or the legislators that truly care for their constituent's safety?

They better take a closer look, and follow the money trail.



That is all for today, mabee
.

 

[cyphertext]

.
As a matter of fact, I was at the place in Texas a few weeks ago...
Purty much jest rock chunkin distance south of the Red River and the free state of Oklahoma.

Not sure how Oklahoma is so "free", since you have to have the license to carry there, either openly or concealed. Can't carry a loaded firearm in the vehicle without a license either, but I digress...

When in Texas, and not on official business, no, I don't display my badge and do not open carry.
Although I probably could,(It's that lit'l 'When in Rome' thing)

You possibly could carry openly... There is no Texas law requiring an officer to display his badge while carrying openly while not in uniform that I know off, just department policies seem to make it a norm.

I do not believe ones profession should take precedents over any other's rights.

Just because I have a badge,
I do not believe that it should be a free pass, to a right,
that rightfully belongs to all law bidding citizens.

100% agree.

I now work in the Commonwealth of Kentucky...
A free state where open carry has always been the order of the day.

Lot of folks open carry, I work with a lot of LEOs that don't display their badges when open carrying.

When you say "lot of folks open carry", can you give more detail? Is this in a large urban area, or out in a small rural town. Lots of folks has not been my experience in New Mexico, Arizona, or Oklahoma.

If folks will think a little bit about how all these concealed carry permitted states came to be.

Was it due to the gun lobby?
The citizens out cry for the right to defend themselves and family?
Or the legislators that truly care for their constituent's safety?

They better take a closer look, and follow the money trail.



That is all for today, mabee
.

In Texas, it was a little of both. Dr. Suzanna Hupp was a strong advocate for our right to carry here, after surviving the Luby's shooting. TSRA has been instrumental in improving the CHL laws over the years since they have passed.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Open carry is a concept whose time has actually passed. In a country of 350 million people the idea of openly carrying handguns, or any firearms, at least insofar as the population centers are concerned, is patently ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Texas is one of 4 states to ban it or if Vermont is one of 46 states to either outright allow it or to allow it by having no specific ban on it. As a general rule in beautiful downtown WHEREVER it's a stupid plan to do it so it is a parallel stupid plan to go around advocating it and wasting everyone's time with it.

As a matter of fact, one of the quaint secondary issues in this matter was the fact that openly carrying long arms was always permissible in Texas and every pickup truck had a gun rack in the back window accordingly. That time, too, has passed. Whether it's anti-gun rhetoric or, more than likely, the high incidence of theft, carrying your hunting long arm in the rear window of your truck has, for the most part, except maybe during hunting season, and then basically only in the "country", disappeared as a normal course of events in Texas. It just isn't done.

That's the real world, friends. You carry guns concealed, nobody really notices or cares. Not in Texas, anyway. You openly flaunt them? Citizens get upset, they call police, etc.

REAL WORLD.

OTOH, I am totally unopposed to the concept. I'd like to see it pass. Just because. And because it's our right.

But would I do it? Not a chance. Nobody needs to know my business and whether I am armed or not. I'd just like to know I could do it if I wanted to.

More to the point, speaking of actually doing it - if I have a gun in a belt holster, I'd love to be able to take my jacket off when I'm driving and not be concerned that the gun is suddenly visible. So, as noted, I totally support the law being changed. I'm just essentially opposed to doing it except in very limited circumstances.

***GRJ***

What makes you think that the time has passed for open carry? What specifically is ridiculous about open carry? Why is it a stupid plan? And, while you're about it, define "flaunt."

As for people getting upset when they see someone open carrying and calling the police, that hasn't been an issue in Oklahoma. People may indeed get upset when they see someone open carrying, but that is their problem. If someone calls the police about a man with a gun call, dispatchers are trained to ask questions like: "Where is the gun?", "What is he doing?", and "Is he behaving strangely?" If the answers are: "It's in a holster.", "He's just walking down the street.", or, "He's not doing anything."; dispatchers explain that the MWAG isn't breaking the law. No problem for the police here.

I've had one person say something negative about my open carry, and she didn't seem to be intimidated in the least.

 

[cyphertext]

As for people getting upset when they see someone open carrying and calling the police, that hasn't been an issue in Oklahoma. People may indeed get upset when they see someone open carrying, but that is their problem. If someone calls the police about a man with a gun call, dispatchers are trained to ask questions like: "Where is the gun?", "What is he doing?", and "Is he behaving strangely?" If the answers are: "It's in a holster.", "He's just walking down the street.", or, "He's not doing anything."; dispatchers explain that the MWAG isn't breaking the law. No problem for the police here.

I've had one person say something negative about my open carry, and she didn't seem to be intimidated in the least.

Since OK has just recently allowed OC, perhaps you can share some experiences? It appears that if a business in OK wants to restrict carrying on their property, it appears that they can simply post a "no guns" or a "ghostbuster" sign. Did OK see an increase of private businesses posting once OC was approved?

It also appears that OK has very specific language requiring the use of a holster. NM did not, when I lived there... So, a MWAG call to police would get a response if the person was carrying a firearm simply tucked into a waistband, or with some type of clipdraw device?

I have family in the OKC area, and when I have visited, I have never seen anyone OC.... however I did notice that the Warren Theater in Moore was posted with a no gun sign.

 

[keith44spl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith44spl
.
As a matter of fact, I was at the place in Texas a few weeks ago...
Purty much jest rock chunkin distance south of the Red River and the free state of Oklahoma.

Originally Posted by cyphertext
Not sure how Oklahoma is so "free", since you have to have the license to carry there, either openly or concealed.
Can't carry a loaded firearm in the vehicle without a license either, but I digress...

Since you asked,
*
The good citizens of Oklahoma and several other states now have the freedom to choose
which way they personally desire to carry their personal defense or sporting sidearm.

As far as the permit issue of it goes...
That may be the only semi-formal training some folks ever get.


Quote:

Originally Posted by keith44spl
When in Texas, and not on official business, no, I don't display my badge and do not open carry.
Although I probably could,(It's that lit'l 'When in Rome' thing)

Originally Posted by cyphertext
You possibly could carry openly...
There is no Texas law requiring an officer to display his badge while carrying openly while not in uniform that I know off,
just department policies seem to make it a norm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith44spl
I do not believe ones profession should take precedents over any other's rights.

Just because I have a badge,
I do not believe that it should be a free pass, to a right,
that rightfully belongs to all law bidding citizens.

Originally Posted by cyphertext
100% agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl

I now work in the Commonwealth of Kentucky...
A free state where open carry has always been the order of the day.

Lot of folks open carry, I work with a lot of LEOs that don't display their badges when open carrying.

Originally Posted by cyphertext
When you say "lot of folks open carry", can you give more detail? Is this in a large urban area, or out in a small rural town. Lots of folks has not been my experience in New Mexico, Arizona, or Oklahoma.

* In The Commonwealth of Kentucky and the State of Tennessee, (Where I spend a majority of my work time)

I have personally observe folks, apparently from all walks of life, carrying holstered side arms, out on the rural route,
the cities of university size and metropolitan areas.
As well as eateries, auto part stores, wally world,
home improvement stores, etc... ( I guess, I'm probably more observant that most)


Why, I've carried my Colt Commander 'mexican style' through a crowded mall near Rupp Arena after attending a gun show there.
And no one pulled the fire alarm, called the police, or utter'd a discouraging word.

*
I worn a holster'd sidearm into the Opryland Hotel with nary a sideward glance from other folks.

(Other than to maybe admire my fancy rig)


Quote:

Originally Posted by keith44spl
If folks will think a little bit about how all these concealed carry permitted states came to be.

Was it due to the gun lobby?
The citizens out cry for the right to defend themselves and family?
Or the legislators that truly care for their constituent's safety?

They better take a closer look, and follow the money trail.



That is all for today, mabee

.

Originally Posted by cyphertext
In Texas, it was a little of both. Dr. Suzanna Hupp was a strong advocate for our right to carry here, after surviving the Luby's shooting. TSRA has been instrumental in improving the CHL laws over the years since they have passed.

[/QUOTE]


*
I am fully aware of Dr. Hupp's heart wrenching testimony of her personally witnessing of that horrific event, as well as the tragic loss of her parents to a mad man.

And yes, the Doctor's testimony was very compelling for the
argument of carrying a personal defense firearm on one's person.





.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I'll be happy to define flaunt for you:

flaunt

verb: flaunt; 3rd person present: flaunts; past tense: flaunted; past participle: flaunted; gerund or present participle: flaunting

display (something) ostentatiously, especially in order to provoke envy or admiration or to show defiance.

Using that definition will emphasize my point.

What makes you think that the time has passed for open carry?

Simple. Because it has. As a general rule, the time has passed for riding horses down Main Street, too. Horses interfere with cars; therefore, we don't routinely ride them on the public thoroughfares any longer. Sometimes there is occasion for it but I'm speaking as a general rule.

Carrying a handgun openly in today's society is, for the most part, ostentatious, and defiant, and if you think it doesn't create terror or worse in the average citizen then you're just being stubborn about it. The fact that it's legal in some places and, therefore, the 911 operators know how to calm down the frightened public, is not sufficient to state that it's not a thing of history that belongs relegated to the dustbin of history.

Again, I made it perfectly clear that it doesn't upset me personally. My main reason for supporting it is to ensure that if I happen to expose my concealed handgun it doesn't violate any laws.

I've gone to parties wearing openly visible handguns, even western style, double holsters, etc. But that's on private property where the folks all knew me and understood the concept. Doing the same thing just walking down the street is just being obnoxious and disrespecting the feelings of my peers.

Clearly, a snub nosed revolver in a tight to the body holster isn't a western rig on display but, still, it will be seen and it will create negative reactions in the America of the 21st century. Arguing that that doesn't matter because legal is legal is just rude and disrespectful to others.

What specifically is ridiculous about open carry? Why is it a stupid plan?

It is ridiculous simply because it is no longer acceptable, and it is stupid for the very same reason. If open carrying of weapons becomes acceptable in normative society I applaud it. It requires a paradigm shift in perception for the average person. YOU AND I/WE are not average when it comes to firearms so OUR acceptance is outside the norm. I am not offended or affrighted by the sight of a handgun on a person's belt. The average citizen is, however, and thus we have to overcome the fear of 350 million people, more or less.

I think it's excellent that a 911 call in Oklahoma generates questions that allow the emergency operator to assuage the fears of the person who called and, at the same time, educate that person. But doing it because you can and knowing that a 911 call will not cause the police to come after you doesn't make doing it any less flaunting.

I well remember in years gone by what my reaction was when I saw firearms openly carried. As a gun person, even decades ago, when I saw a gent come out of a convenience store with a small revolver holstered on his belt (this was in Mississippi as I recall) I was stunned. "Wow!", I thought, "I wonder how he gets away with that??!!" (The law was weird back then in Mississippi - something about a gun in a holster being okay due to partial concealment.) My point is that I was stunned and I liked it. What about the guy who is stunned and scared to death by it?

Then there was a parade in Prescott, Arizona. July 4th, almost exactly 30 years ago today. Bikers lined the streets and it seemed to me that every motorcycle had a rider sporting a handgun. Nobody paid attention - there were only two possible reasons. First, it was legal. Second, everyone was intimidated. But there were police around so I simply asked and discovered it was legal and acceptable. PARADIGM SHIFT REQUIRED. In Arizona, in the small town of Prescott for sure, everyone knew it was legal and it was acceptable. Fine by me.

But I'll also tell you that those guns were being openly flaunted and the only people doing it were on motorcycles. To my way of thinking, that was a necessity for them. Okay, fine.

If you can teach that to 350 million Americans I'm with you. If you can't then open carrying of handguns is stupidly ostentatious, offensive, and it's time has passed.

You know what? I want to be wrong.
***GRJ***

 

[keith44spl]

flaunt

verb: flaunt; 3rd person present: flaunts; past tense: flaunted; past participle: flaunted; gerund or present participle: flaunting

display (something) ostentatiously, especially in order to provoke envy or admiration or to show defiance.

Thanks for defining that for us.....

Now, I know what Iggy meant when he said I looked 'Ostentations' in this photo,




Thanks, Iggy





Dis claimer; For those of you that don't really know me,
that's a photo of some ol galoot I hired away from a carnival sideshow .

And most of my posts are really penned by a sweet lit'l ol schoolmarm from Chugwater, Wyoming.


.

 

[bgrone]

OC/CC

In Iowa we have shall issue CC , open carry is also legal other than schools, where prohibited, etc. Thus I don't have to worry about accidental exposure if my shirt rides up, my cover jacket blows open etc. I feel quite comfortable with these conditions. The only additional wish I have for Iowa laws is to legalize suppressors, I live in a rural area and can shoot freely but out of consideration of neighbors within earshot I would like to use suppressors on my rifles.

IMHO the long gun open carry demonstrators are somewhat like the Gay Rights Paraders, I have a gay brother whom I love dearly and support wholeheartedly, however I am not a fan of the in your face parades, public displays of affection (same goes for hetero couples too...get a room!!), call me old fashioned but I believe in a certain level of decorum in public.

Recently a State Trooper expressed that he felt the open long gun demonstrators were dangerous in that carrying behind the back leaves the gun accessible to others.

Look at the picture posted by Keith 44Spl then look at some of the pics seen on the net of some of the long gun open demonstrators. One picture suggests a legally armed citizen that is prepared to defend himself and those close to him, the other pics seem to represent refugees from The Jerry Springer Show.

The long open carry groups bear no resemblance to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s. The open carry advocates are not being denied employment, housing or education. They are not being attacked, vilified, spit on, on sight . They have a right to express their views but should not be grouped with people who risked their safety and lives to improve the treatment of groups that were( sometime still are) being oppressed on a daily basis not for anything they said or believed but simply for who they were(are).[

Flame on

Jim in Iowa

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Since OK has just recently allowed OC, perhaps you can share some experiences? It appears that if a business in OK wants to restrict carrying on their property, it appears that they can simply post a "no guns" or a "ghostbuster" sign. Did OK see an increase of private businesses posting once OC was approved?

I've had one "lady" get upset with me because I was open carrying. She seemed the type to be upset if she thought I was carrying concealed. She wasn't scared or intimidated; she was pissed. Another time at an Easy Go on the Indian Nations turnpike a teenager told his dad that I was carrying a gun. Didn't concern his dad.

I haven't seen an increase in gunbuster signs. Los Cabos, a Mexican restaurant with a bar, posted a "No Open Carry" sign.

It also appears that OK has very specific language requiring the use of a holster. NM did not, when I lived there... So, a MWAG call to police would get a response if the person was carrying a firearm simply tucked into a waistband, or with some type of clipdraw device?

Gotta have a holster; can't be carrying it in your hands. Police will respond.

I have family in the OKC area, and when I have visited, I have never seen anyone OC.... however I did notice that the Warren Theater in Moore was posted with a no gun sign.

Warren theaters have a corporate policy against carrying guns. Always have.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

You know what? I want to be wrong.
***GRJ***

Well, that's okay, because you are wrong. You give common people's powers of observation too much credit and their rationality too little. Our local big city newspaper that railed against open carry conceded on the editorial page that open carry was no big deal. Of course, this is Oklahoma where the anti-gun nuts' "magical thinking" holds little sway.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I do have a question for the board: Why do the concealed carry only folks call open carry advocates "idiots," "stupid," etc., when all we're doing is exercising out r rights?

 

[cyphertext]

I do have a question for the board: Why do the concealed carry only folks call open carry advocates "idiots," "stupid," etc., when all we're doing is exercising out r rights?

Well, in the case of the OC advocates here in Texas, how many times do you do something and receive a negative response, so you do it over and over again expecting a different outcome? I believe Einstein defined that process as insanity...

Starbuck's, Chipotle, Chili's, Sonic, Jack in the Box, Applebee's all instituted a "no guns" policy based on the actions of the open carry activists carrying their long guns into the restaurants.

Parkdale Mall went as far as posting legal signs prohibiting CC after an open carry incident in the mall. Home Depot and Target are considering instituting policies.

And in the case of Chipotle, Chili's, Applebee's, and Target, the OC groups are breaking the law here in Texas and jeopardizing the liquor license of the business, as the "unlicensed possession of a weapon on the premises" is prohibited.

 

[keith44spl]

I do have a question for the board:
Why do the concealed carry only folks call open carry advocates "idiots," "stupid," etc.,
when all we're doing is exercising out r rights?

Well, we all know how it goes....

If they don't like the message.....

They attack the messenger.


This thing of open carry for Texas,

It's time Texas came into the 21st century,
these old post civil war statutes of reconstruction are forever out dated.

It does not effect me so much,


If for no other reason, let's do it for the children.


If this prohibition continues, it will have a negative impact on my children, grandchildren and all our generations to come.

They can call me what they like, but let the naysayers know....

They can't stop a man that's in the right, that keeps on a coming!


May God Bless Texas

Hook em Horns



.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Ah, if only CC adherents saved their name calling for long gun carriers in Texas. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

 

[keith44spl]

Ah, if only CC adherents saved their name calling for long gun carriers in Texas.

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

Ah yeah, I've saw where some of those folks have been kickin up a lit'l sand,
what with totin' them long guns around in public.

It's all in one own perception of things in life....

Some folks don't like other folks, and don't like other folks
that see things differently from their point of view.

Personally, I'm not easily offended by all this....

But, one thing that really chaps my *** is....Really fat women stuff'd into spandex,


There ought to be a law!




.

 

[hatt]

I do have a question for the board: Why do the concealed carry only folks call open carry advocates "idiots," "stupid," etc., when all we're doing is exercising out r rights?

Because few people advocate Rights. Most advocate their personal beliefs.

 

[JohnSW]

More backlash caused by kooky open carry demonstrations:

"But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law."

"This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."

Target Addresses Firearms in Stores | A Bullseye View

 

[ladder13]

I do have a question for the board: Why do the concealed carry only folks call open carry advocates "idiots," "stupid," etc., when all we're doing is exercising out r rights?

Cause they're frustrated that they can't force their will on others. Good thing they're not in charge of upholding the Constitution, since they don't like ALL of it, just what suits them.

As for the likes of Target, Sonic and the rest, I won't spend a single penny in any of their stores.

 

[mark32812]

I have been wondering if the Open Carry folks in Texas are really plants trying add fuel to the gun control movement.