Is there something in the water in Texas?....

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I hear a lot of double talk and excuses.

I do too. From their own mouths these gun rights groups say that OC wasn't even on their radar screen. Now they act as if they are the ones who have been carrying the OC torch over the years while OC groups are jeopardizing all their hard work.

 

[hatt]

It's what happens when you depend on for profit special interest groups to do your bidding.

 

[cyphertext]

According to the OC guys, in the years they have been organizing the NRA has never even been to an OC rally. Doesn't surprise me. I don't believe I have heard of the NRA organizing or participating in an OC event anywhere in America, ever. Have they? However, the NRA did take the time to recently lash out at OC organizers and then end up apologizing.

LadyT posted a short article about NRA and Texas gun rights lobbyists surprised that they are now involved in lobbying for OC.

-----

For the first time ever, the main gun-rights groups in Austin -- the NRA, the TSRA, and the Texas Firearms Coalition -- will be making a concerted push for open-carry legislation, and they say it has a very good shot at passing if open carry demonstrators like the ones outside the GOP convention don't screw it up.

It boggles the mind, but this wasn't even an issue in Texas a decade ago, despite the fact that the public display of handguns has been illegal in Texas since some time around Reconstruction and that only four other states explicitly ban open carry, making Texas a laggard on this particular front.

The big gun-rights battle in Texas, waged in the early to mid-1990s, was over concealed carry.

"Open carry was literally not on the radar screen," says Charles Cotton, an NRA board member and president of the TFC.

What changed, Tripp says, was the Internet. A critical mass of people suddenly realized what a rarity Texas' open-carry ban was, and they began mobilizing to change it.

-----

It has been the push by OC groups organizing on the Net and rallies that has forced it upon thier agenda. Otherwise theses gun rights groups you just cited would be happily do nothing with their minds not "boggled" and no bothersome OC blips on their radar screen.

It gets rather tiresome hearing the whining class blame the OC folks for somehow jeopardizing that which the whining class had no intention of fighting for.

Yeah sure, some people are offended by seeing guns in the open. The 2A offends many people.

We had an OC bill in the last legislative term, however it died in committee. It took over 10 years for CC to pass here, closer to 15 if I remember correctly... our legislators only meet every other year.

But you are right, they haven't been pushing for OC hard, they have been making our CC laws better. Our CC laws were not great, but they are much better now. It isn't that they have been sitting on the fringe, but they have been going after the things that they could get through legislation and make changes.

And this hasn't been an issue in Texas until recently... based on the other thread that was closed, many in Texas are fine with CC, and couldn't care less about OC of a handgun.

 

[shawn mccarver]

For all those who are alarmed at seeing open carry, I suppose these timid people must be frightened out of their minds when the visit almost any city, town or village in Switzerland when, on a Saturday or Sunday morning, you might find anywhere from a dozen to a hundred ordinary folks with their GOVERNMENT ISSUED SIG 550 fully automatic rifles slung over their shoulders getting ready to board a train for a quick run to the nearest rifle range, which is never too far away, as they have gun ranges with about the same frequency as we have baseball and softball fields.

Admittedly, I have not been to Switzerland recently, but I have no reason to think anything has changed about the regular shooting practice, as shooting is the "national sport" in Switzerland, much like baseball is here.

 

[turnejm]

Wow! Can of Beans Opened?

In a recent thread on a similar subject, I posted this:
Allow me to join in to this Excellent Discussion!
First, and foremost, As a Native Texan and very Proud of it, The RIGHT to possess and carry a firearm is the right of every CITIZEN. Texas has chosen a path of moderation to this touchy subject! A lot of city folk move to the country and don't understand the ways of living in the country. When a person chooses to Open Carry or not, that should be their decision! Personally, I choose not to open carry for the reason of not drawing attention to myself. When I see a A4 (M16) hanging from a shoulder in a Downtown area, I've got to wonder about the person's decision making capability. Not saying they don't have the Right, but Rights have responsibilities that don't always get used wisely!
As a resident now, of New Mexico (an Open Carry state), It doesn't bother or surprise me when I see an open carried firearm. It is their right to do so!

 

[BAM-BAM]

I will admit to not having read every post in this thread........

I got my Pa. CCP 35 years ago...initially so that I could carry a 4" S&W .38/.357 while walking in Penn's woods..... I wanted to be discreet and low profile.......

If these protesters/ demonstrators were carrying 2-3 inch 36/60s or 4" 19/66s or med-large auto in a belt holster with retention..... I think it would make a better statement of their point...........

Carrying; ARs, Mini-14 and other long guns slung across their backs or in their hands makes me ask ....... is this what they want from OC....if so......

are they nuts!!!!!!.

Because that's what most; who are neutral, on the fence or don't see the need for anyone to carry any gun is going to think about the demonstrators.... "I don't want these nut jobs carrying an AR in Wal-Mart or Denny's..... while I'm shopping or having my "Breakfast Smile"....... I don't want to have to worry if this person is just a shopper or the next mass killer gunman!!!!!!!!


Riots in the streets; civil insurrection..... grab a long gun.....I will.... daily carry...... show your common sense.

 

[ladder13]

It gets rather tiresome hearing the whining class blame the OC folks for somehow jeopardizing that which the whining class had no intention of fighting for.

Just cause you have a reason/right to whine doesn't mean you always should. Use common sense.

 

[hatt]

If these protesters/ demonstrators were carrying 2-3 inch 36/60s or 4" 19/66s or med-large auto in a belt holster with retention..... I think it would make a better statement of their point...........

If they had been carrying "2-3 inch 36/60s or 4" 19/66s or med-large auto in a belt holster with retention" they would have been arrested and prosecuted. So you're saying that doing illegal stuff would have made a "better statement?"

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I will admit to not having read every post in this thread........


If these protesters/ demonstrators were carrying 2-3 inch 36/60s or 4" 19/66s or med-large auto in a belt holster with retention..... I think it would make a better statement of their point...........

That's a fascinating analysis considering handgun open carry is banned in Texas and is why they are demonstrating to begin with.

 

[JDBoardman]

Originally Posted by GerSan69 View Post
If the right to OC is so fundamental to the Second Amendment, why are we having to get it passed by every legislature in every state? Seems to me ''somebody'' doesn't consider it as such, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion...

My friend, if you were to read the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, it becomes abundantly clear that, indeed, the right to Open Carry IS fundamental. It says, and I quote," ...the RIGHT {Not privilege, not the leaders may grant you permission, but a G_d-given right} to keep and BEAR { not hide them, not lock them away in a storage cabinet, not stash them under the bed...} arms SHALL { an absolute, not 'under reasonable circumstances' } not be infringed {limited, intruded upon, limited under any condition}."

The emphasis and explanation of the operative words are so that those of somewhat limited ability to comprehend the English language (like legislators, Congressmen, Senators, some Supreme Court Associate Justices, etc) can be aided in their understanding of what the words mean.

Why the people continue to elect representatives who obviously could not pass a simple English comprehension exam continues to puzzle me. And the letters J.D. or LL.B clearly do not ensure an IQ above room temperature.

 

[JDBoardman]

And as an aside, I dare say that many, if not most of those who have their panties in a wad about citizens open carrying their long guns in public are likely refugees to Texas who want to move here and make it just like the Hell-hole they left. For these folks, despite historic Texas hospitality, if you don't like the way we do things here, then leave. Delta is ready when you are!

Yes, there IS something in the water here, and for y'all to complain about it just pisses us off!

 

[hatt]

And as an aside, I dare say that many, if not most of those who have their panties in a wad about citizens open carrying their long guns in public are likely refugees to Texas who want to move here and make it just like the Hell-hole they left. For these folks, despite historic Texas hospitality, if you don't like the way we do things here, then leave. Delta is ready when you are!

Yes, there IS something in the water here, and for y'all to complain about it just pisses us off!

I dare say most of those panties belong to NRA members. Clearly the general public doesn't care too much since almost every state has some form of OC. Even the ones not so friendly to guns.

We aren't battling anti-gun peole here. It's the "pro-gun" folks you can point the finger at.

 

[BAM-BAM]

That's a fascinating analysis considering handgun open carry is banned in Texas and is why they are demonstrating to begin with.

Did not know/ understand that.. I was blinded by all the Semi-auto firepower... so no handguns but you can carry a AR-15......... will the stupidity of state legislatures never cease....................

then might I suggest... a nice Winchester 94....... LOL .......or a Winchester Trapper in .357 or .44...... I believe those would be considered a Texas tradition.....

For some strange reason I was thinking they were open carrying ...... because they could.. but could not conceal carry......................demonstrating that; while we are able to carry openly ( even ARs) we can't get a concealed carry permit.


How hard is it to get a CCP in Texas.....?????

 

[cyphertext]

How hard is it to get a CCP in Texas.....?????

It isn't difficult. I have seen folks who didn't even know how to load their firearm show up to the class and pass the shooting qualification.

 

[cyphertext]

The thing is, there is a right way and a wrong way to protest. Organizing a march, passing out pamphlets, organizing a petition, speaking to legislators... these are the ways to get a law passed.

Carrying into private businesses where the business owner only wants to sell coffee, burgers, or tacos and forcing the business to take a side is not the way to pass an open carry law. When you force a business to take a side and they go with a "no weapons" policy vs. following state and local laws, you have moved gun rights backwards, not forwards.

Carrying toy pistols or black powder pistols with the intention to bait law enforcement into a confrontation is not the way to pass an open carry law.

Carrying on the capitol grounds when already told that you are not allowed to, in an effort to bait law enforcement, is not the way to pass an open carry law. If it is an unlawful request, then you contact higher authorities within DPS (capitol police), or your representatives. You address it within the proper channels and courts, not on the street with patrol officers, while filming it for youtube.

These are not the people I want representing me. Most non-gun folks do not make any connection with the carrying of long arms to the desire to openly carry handguns. Carrying of empty holsters, or no firearm at all would make these groups much more approachable and not put off so many people.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The thing is, there is a right way and a wrong way to protest. Organizing a march, passing out pamphlets, organizing a petition, speaking to legislators... these are the ways to get a law passed.

.

Are you organizing marches, handing out pamphlets and collecting petition signatures to legalize open carry in Texas?

 

[5wheelin']

I wouldn't tell somebody how to carry their gun, open or concealed. I've seen people open carrying before going about their day as normally as I go about my day carrying concealed. Thankfully in PA we have the option of carrying how we'd like. You technically don't even need our License to Carry Firearms to open carry a handgun. I personally concealed carry because I believe it's an advantage to conceal my weapon until I need to draw it and because frankly I don't feel like dealing with the inevitable questioning I'd get because I live in a city. I feel like it would happen eventually, and I just don't feel like dealing with that at all.

That being said, if I saw anybody walking around with their long gun here I'd be looking at them sideways and keeping an eye on them to make sure they aren't a threat. Different situations though. Nobody in their right mind would do that here because we can carry our handguns openly if we want, so it's a non issue as far as protests go. I suppose it would be different if everybody knew what they were doing it for, which I assume people in Texas know. It's a very different situation from seeing someone and thinking "oh, well, he's probably open carrying to make a point and showing how asinine it is that carrying a long gun is legal openly while carrying a handgun openly is not" and "what the hell is that guy doing in Pittsburgh with his rifle, shotgun, whatever."

I personally never would think of carrying any of my long guns around the general public as an option for anything. Though I do see what the people in Texas are trying to do, and support their goals of legalizing open carry with handguns. Are they going about it the right way? I have no idea. I don't live there. I don't know what the environment is like, what the community is like, how accepting it is, how often people do it, etc. So I feel like I can't make any judgements beyond I hope they get open carry with handguns legalized and that I wouldn't carry a long gun where I live.

 

[cyphertext]

Are you organizing marches, handing out pamphlets and collecting petition signatures to legalize open carry in Texas?

Phil, you changed your questions before I got a chance to answer them...

The simple answer is no, I am not. OC has not been a big issue for me. I really don't see the point of OC with a license. When I was in the military and lived in an open carry state, I rarely saw anyone doing so. I openly carried in my vehicle, but Texas state law allows for us to carry concealed in our vehicles without a license, thanks to lobbying by the TSRA.

I already have the ability to openly carry a long gun when it would be needed, such as during the time of unrest or natural disaster.

Remember the LA riots and the Korean shop keepers guarding their stores from the rooftops with AK 47s? That is exercising the right responsibly, not when going to get a coffee and a doughnut. TSRA lobbied to get a bill passed to prohibit seizures during disasters, so that we could exercise that right.

TSRA has lobbied for other ways to make our CHL better, such as lowering the class time requirement from 10 hours down to 4 to 6 hours, doing away with a classroom requirement for renewal, and eliminating handgun categories in our licensing.

You are correct that TSRA has not focused previously on open carry. They tend to focus on things that have been at the forefront longer, and quite frankly, are more likely to pass. Things like the bill that allows me to keep my firearm in my vehicle, while parked in my employer's parking lot, college campus carry, and a bill to protect shooting ranges from frivolous lawsuits.

I am not against open carry, just against the negative manner in which much of the OC movement conducts itself here in Texas. They have not conducted themselves in a professional and positive manner. As some of the OC groups have tried to change their image, others have splintered off from the parent organization and continue with their ill advised shenanigans. I've commented on their facebook page, offering support and suggestions, only to be called names and shouted down because I do not agree with their tactics.

 

[FTG-05]

Did not know/ understand that.. I was blinded by all the Semi-auto firepower... so no handguns but you can carry a AR-15......... will the stupidity of state legislatures never cease....................

[snip]


How hard is it to get a CCP in Texas.....?????

Not only did you miss the part about OC-handguns being illegal in TX, but a CCP should not be required as part of the 2nd amendment!

What is so hard to understand:

".... the right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The simple answer is no, I am not. OC has not been a big issue for me. I really don't see the point of OC with a license.

I've commented on their facebook page, offering support and suggestions, only to be called names and shouted down because I do not agree with their tactics.

I see... You aren't doing what you profess others to do, but this is because you don't care much about 2A infringement in this case. Sorry Cypher, but if everyone was like the description above OC would be forever banned.

I just can't understand why the guys who are out there fighting for their rights aren't receptive to being lectured by disinterested sideline critics. How rude of them! c'mon Cypher... If you aren't leading or following what did you expect to hear other than to get out of the way?