Is this gun unfired?

[Gun 4 Fun]

TDC-

He states in his OP, that he relined the case due to the flocking being detiorated.

Doc44 has at least one, and I believe two that have red ramp front sight inserts, and came that way from the factory. I know for sure that he has an 8 3/8" 25-2 with RR, and I believe the other is a rare 4" 25-2.

 

[epj]

The notion that the factory always fired every other cyylinder is not correct. That was the common practice, but I know for fact that at least one very early 629 came from the factory with all 6 chambers fired. I have seen others that were reputed to have come from the factory with 1, 2, and 4 cylinders fired. I can only vouch for the 629 that had all six fired.

 

[sgt105]

Yellow insert front sights.

Back in 1981 or 1982, I tried several S&W model 66's with factory colored inserts, yellow and red. These were on T&E revolvers that a Smith & Wesson factory rep. lent our police department for test & evaluation. We were ordering approx. 40 S&W model 67's for our uniform officers duty revolvers. We also wanted to have insert sights installed on model 36's 2" nickel that were going to be issued to plain clothes personell. Smith & Wesson would install yellow or red on the K-frames but would not install them on the J-frames. We had to use the Model 66's for T&E as the model 67's were in short supply. I was the Sr. Firearms Officer and was responsible for testing and recommending what to order for our duty revolvers. This was the first time our department standardized our duty revolvers. The yellow sight inserts were not as easy to see as the red inserts on our qualification targets, which were tan in color. Prior to that we used a Colt black silhouettet target, which would be just right for a yellow insert. We ordered the model 67's with Red ramp inserts. We had a custom gunsmith install red inserts on the model 36's. We have not had any problem with the inserts falling out on the model 36's. In 1986 we traded in our model 67's for S&W Model 645 & 659's The new age of the semi- auto's for LEO was beginning for our department.

 

[TDC]

TDC-

He states in his OP, that he relined the case due to the flocking being detiorated.

Doc44 has at leat one, and I believe two that have red ramp front sight inserts, and came that way from the factory. I know for sure that he has an 8 3/8" 25-2 with RR, and I believe the other is a rare 4" 25-2.

I was aware of the reline job. I made that comment simply as another clue the original case has had frequent use and the pistol was fired, often leaving residue on the original liner..

If anyone has them it would be Doc44. I'm sure, as I mentioned, that they existed, but I doubt random unordered Mod 25-2's were shipped with yellow or RRs. I've never seen one personally that wasn't aftermarket or supported by it's box label info documentation.

The notion that the factory always fired every other cyylinder is not correct. That was the common practice, but I know for fact that at least one very early 629 came from the factory with all 6 chambers fired. I have seen others that were reputed to have come from the factory with 1, 2, and 4 cylinders fired. I can only vouch for the 629 that had all six fired.

I also have a 629-0 that has had all cylinders fired from the factory. It is the only pistol in my collection that has. I stated the cylinder issue simply as another clue to determine if the pistol has had additional post-factory shooting use.

I'm sure some people would have the patience and the desire to make it impossible to determine if a well used pistol has been fired beyond the factory. I'm the original owner of all my new guns and I retain the purchase documentation to prove it.... Original ownership can be simply another clue. In reality all we can assume are the clues we've learned from experience are overlooked by others.

JMHO

TDC

 

[Troystat]

"unfired" or not I think you got a great deal, around CA you don't see to many N frame Smiths priced that low. Especially nice clean ones with such big holes in the cylinders Nice purchase and thanks for showing the pics.

Troy

 

[elwood]

The 25-2's with factory red ramp/white outline sights are a bit scarce, but not really a rare commodity. I have seen a few (2 or 3) advertised on GB in the past couple of years. If I had to guess, I'd say less that 5% of the 25-2 production had this option. Maybe no more than 1 or 2%. I suppose it would be as easy for the factorty to do a yellow insert as it would be a red one. Never say never with S&W. Does your gun have the WO rear sight?

epj: I have a Model 25-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel and red ramp front sight and white outline rear...with target hammer and target trigger...I've owned it for several years and never got around to shooting it. I'm surprised to learn that so few were made set-up like this. Sorry...don't mean to hi-jack the thread.

Elwood

 

[epj]

epj: I have a Model 25-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel and red ramp front sight and white outline rear...with target hammer and target trigger...I've owned it for several years and never got around to shooting it. I'm surprised to learn that so few were made set-up like this. Sorry...don't mean to hi-jack the thread.

Elwood

The vast majority seem to have come with the patridge front sight and plain black rear. AFAIK, most if not all came with 3T's.

 

[elwood]

The vast majority seem to have come with the patridge front sight and plain black rear. AFAIK, most if not all came with 3T's.

Nice...I think I'll shoot it tomorrow. Just for "kicks and giggles".

Thanks,

Elwood

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I was aware of the reline job. I made that comment simply as another clue the original case has had frequent use and the pistol was fired, often leaving residue on the original liner..

Actually, this is what you said in your post-

The material inside the presentation case doesn't appear to be correct and that may be another clue not mentioned.

I posted what I said, because it appeared that you missed the op's statement about relining the case with felt.

Also, just because the lining was replaced, that is not necessarily an indication that the gun was fired at all. Those linings commonly deteriorated just from age, even with guns that were never fired.

 

[jcelect]

Presentation Case help!

The original covering on that type of case liners never held up whether used to store a gun or not! I have had cases like that still sealed and when they were opened the covering went to blue dust!

This is what I can do for your case liners! Please email me if you are interested? At [email protected]
jcelect SWCA#LM723

 

[colt_saa]

There is no doubt in my mind that this revovler has been fired since leaving the factory. It had also been well cleaned.

 

[TDC]

Actually, this is what you said in your post-


I posted what I said, because it appeared that you missed the op's statement about relining the case with felt.

Also, just because the lining was replaced, that is not necessarily an indication that the gun was fired at all. Those linings commonly deteriorated just from age, even with guns that were never fired.

I considered the replacement but also wanted to suggest many 30 and 40 year old liners are still "as new" and pristine. If kept in a controlled environment they don't deteriorate from my experience. My point was unclear.

The points I mentioned are all simply clues that may lead to a reasonable conclusion when combined with other clues, many of which were mentioned in earlier posts by others..... None are assured .... none are definitive .... they are simply added to all the other visual clues I've considered when a person professes a firearm to be "new and unfired since leaving the factory."

I think many of us probably realize by now there is no more misused or potentially abused term than new or "NIB" by some firearms owners. That's why my own personal collection is made up of guns of which I'm the original purchaser, with original dated purchase receipts as well as any additional documentation pertinent to the purchase. They represent a 40 year accumulation.

I've been evaluating S&W handguns for friends and some other collectors for years and these are the visual hints and methods I use. I'm no "expert" or do I suggest I know 1/10 what others on this site know. These clues may not appeal to others to use but they work for me.

JMHO.....

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

TDC-

You have the right idea for collecting, I'll tell you that.
Knowing a guns origin is very comforting to a lot of us, and having the documentation is even better.

I think we're all just trying to help here.

 

[TDC]

TDC-

You have the right idea for collecting, I'll tell you that.
Knowing a guns origin is very comforting to a lot of us, and having the documentation is even better.

I think we're all just trying to help here.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm brand new here and certainly not a professional writer, as I'm sure you observed.

Being new I'm learning things on this board not possible to have access to many years ago. I plan to stick around this site so I can catch up on many of the gaps I have about more current S&W pistols. My original intent with joining this board was to find out current values of the older guns I have. I had given some thought to selling them but I think I'm going to reconsider that for a while.

If I add an opinion in the future I'll try to be more clear in every detail. Thanks again for the kind words!!

TDC

 

[sw282]

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[TDC]

Women and guns have a lot in common. They both need to be used.

My "new" Mod 19 I got back from Smith is no longer unfired. Theres now a cylinder ring and wear on the ratchet. The more I shot it at the range last nite the more "used" it got. Smoother too. I feel sorry for all these modern shooters who will never know the feel of a good revolver. They only know tupperware and bottom feeders

Ah.... what sad and revealing assumptions....

Well..... I guess it all boils down to how many you have to shoot to get your jollies. I currently have 6 that are in continual use. They include a Mod.63 Kit gun, a Mod.66 2 1/2, a Mod.57 6", a Mod.629 5" Classic, a Mod. 500 6 1/2, and a Mod. 1911. They will all be in a state of constant rotation with new guns I find interesting. I not only shoot them I have successfully hunted deer and elk with some of them.

I believe there are a lot of collectors who "know the feel" of a good revolver. Additionally, many prefer to invest their money in nice handguns rather than some other endeavor. I'd have to admit to not understanding how a person can be content to shoot just one handgun in one caliber.

Collecting guns isn't for everyone. They are much like old cars or even stamps or coins. They give joy just to look at even if they're not being used, and the more pristine and new they are the better...

I also reload and cast my own bullets as many other collectors do. So I guess a case could be made that our commitment to gun ownership and the shooting sport is much more extensive than the person who only owns one pistol and doesn't reload.

To each his own.... But I'll still do it my way...

 

[EvenStephen]

I use a lead removal cloth to get rid of the carbon on the cylinder face of my guns. It's the only thing I've found that gets carbon off of stainless steel. You have to use a lot of elbow grease as well but it doesn't mar the steel as anything you would use with a brush would. You can buy a lead removal cloth at any gun shop. They are also good for removing residue from around the forcing cone and top strap. I cut it up in small pieces that I can use to get into all the nooks and cranny's. A dental tool used by Hygienists to clean teeth is helpful for guiding the cloth and applying sufficient pressure to clean tight areas. If I work at it long enough and with enough diligence, I can get they cylinder faces of even heavily used guns to look similar to new. Its always harder with blued guns than stainless or nickel as some of the blue is always disintegrated off the cylinder face just from the gasses discharged in firing the gun even once.

Please notice the warning on the LEAD-CLEAN GUN CLOTH package: "Use only on Stainless or Nickel finished guns. DO NOT USE ON BLUED OR CASE HARDENED SURFACES."

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Please notice the warning on the LEAD-CLEAN GUN CLOTH package: "Use only on Stainless or Nickel finished guns. DO NOT USE ON BLUED OR CASE HARDENED SURFACES."

I have used them for years on really fouled blue guns without trouble. You just can't be heavy handed.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Easy]

The 25-2's with factory red ramp/white outline sights are a bit scarce, but not really a rare commodity. I have seen a few (2 or 3) advertised on GB in the past couple of years. If I had to guess, I'd say less that 5% of the 25-2 production had this option. Maybe no more than 1 or 2%. I suppose it would be as easy for the factorty to do a yellow insert as it would be a red one. Never say never with S&W. Does your gun have the WO rear sight?

No, just plain black rear sights.

 

[Easy]

It looks new to me. You could order yellow as a factory option. Do you have the blue box? look at the 'sights' window if it was ordered red it will be marker "RR".

While the original display case, cleaning kit and manual came with the gun the blue box that was given to me wasn't original to the gun.