Itemized Reloading System COST

[Twoboxer]

Very nice bench.

As far as brass is concerned, pistol brass has a very long life . . . I lose (and pickup others) before they become un-reloadable . . . at least 9mm and 45ACP do with moderate loads. Dunno about 357.

Rifle brass lasts maybe 6-15 reloads depending on caliber and load . . . at least 223 and 30-06 do. Again, dunno about 222.

As was said earlier, buying factory loads to get brass is often a bit more expensive than buying virgin brass and reloading. But its a workable approach whenever you are not quite ready to reload, and you won't "lose" too much money in the process.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Safety Mats

Thanks for the kudos on my bench.

Thinking about it though, I will probably need to add one or two 4x6ft "horse stall mats" (@ $39.99 each) around the bench, in order to be absolutely sure I drop nothing directly on concrete. I have been wanting these for a long time anyways, for my aching legs/back. At 3/4" thick I figure they ought to put the bounce back in my step...

Rubber Horse Stall Mat, 4 ft. x 6 ft. - Tractor Supply Co.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Glad to see you've got the solid bench thing covered, HMike.

There's nothing like operating any tool on a bench that moves to make you want to start cussin'. Like the difference in a portable contractor model table saw vs a heavy, cast iron stationary saw. "Tolerance is Intolerable" is what my old shop teacher used to say.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[WARCOLLECT]

I don't reload to save money. I reload to shoot better ammo. I have
two dillon 550s and two rock chuckers and a hornady 366 shotgun
press. I have six benches. I have seventeen forster trimmers and turners
set for dedicated calibers. Case prep,bullet casting and over a hundred greeen boxes of dies. In other words a big investment. All this to produce tight groups. So I am not saving money just better custom loads.
You have to consider what you want your results to be. I started with a rock chucker starter kit about $250 now. It comes with every thing you need except dies and componets. I haven't bought factory ammo in thirty years. Great hobby keep good records.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Tighter Groups

I don't reload to save money. I reload to shoot better ammo. I have two dillon 550s and two rock chuckers and a hornady 366 shotgun press. I have six benches. I have seventeen forster trimmers and turners set for dedicated calibers. Case prep,bullet casting and over a hundred greeen boxes of dies. In other words a big investment. All this to produce tight groups. So I am not saving money just better custom loads.
... I haven't bought factory ammo in thirty years. Great hobby keep good records.

Wow! Now THAT sounds like the ultimate setup! Being the newbie I am starting out with just the one setup, the Lee Classic Turret and just two calibers worth of dies and associated tools. Ordered an extra turret too.

FWIW, Shot a box of commercial .222 this past weekend and had large groups of 6-8in. Have some +50yr old reloads (my father's from this very rifle) and decided to put a couple rounds down range "just to see" how they shot. One was DC at 200yd and the other was less than an inch from the first. Even I was able to tell a difference in the feel of how they shot. Was a bit nervous with these because they were loaded slightly above the current max load charts for IMR4198. Still have 2 boxes (40rds.) left of these but need to clean them up, as they feel quite tacky. Maybe the case lube turned waxy of something.

Bottom line is that I NOW understand what you mean about the ability to get tighter groups. This has me pumped!

 

[arjay]

The search for better accuracy got me started reloading in the 80s.I had bought a 6 lb rifle in 243 thinking it would make a great mountain rifle for deer and could serve double duty as a varmint rifle and for coyote fur.The best it would shoot with factory ammo was 2 moa....
It didn't take too much effort to create 3 different loads that were all sub moa and I was hooked.

 

[Bkreutz]

This thread had been an interesting read. It clearly shows the many reasons for handloading ammo, from trying to save some money, to getting more accurate long range performance. (and a bunch of reasons in between) (Recently ammo availability has been a big reason) After reading the last few posts I appreciate what I would call the "other side of the handloading coin" compared to why I handload. To me it's simple economics. My main area of interest is action pistol shooting so consequently I load 1 caliber and 1 load in large quantities (1200 a week). But then again my target area is 8" at 5-25 yards. The difference is that I do this as quickly as possible so what drives my handloading requirements are recoil management, reliability, and acceptable accuracy. I've got the cost for 9mm down to around 10 - 12 cents a round (depending on component cost). But it is still interesting to see the various reasons for handloading and how others achieve their personal goals. It's all good.

 

[Krogen]

Another handloading advantage is flexibility. The same primers, powders and bullets can be used across multiple calibers. For example, I can load for all my handguns with Unique. So Unique doesn't give full performance in 44 Mag or 357? Add 296 and then I can use it in 300 BLK or 30 Carbine or .410 shotgun. Lots of mix 'n match examples exist and the more calibers you handload the better it gets.

Now, consider buying loaded ammo for these calibers. Once you find some, you pretty much have to take whatever bullet the ammo was loaded with. And... those components are committed (i.e. they're loaded up and unavailable for use in other calibers). Not so for handloaders, provided you haven't committed your stash. In my case, for example, I get good results from Hornady's 50 gr SP and I load it in 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem and 22-250 whatever strikes my fancy.

So.... more calibers => greater flexibility. Sounds like a good argument for buying more guns.

 

[BC38]

My main reasons for wanting to reload are 1) economics and 2) availability. For me a $2000 investment would take a LOOOOONG time to justify. At 25 cents per round savings that's 8000 rounds to break even. At least 3 or 4 years worth. Even 4000 rounds at 50 cents savings per would take a couple of years to pencil out, and since I'm loading common handgun calibers, the factory ammo is quite a bit less than 50 cents per round and would have to at least double in price to be able to save that much each.

Availability is a different story. I'm not just concerned about the types of shortages we've seen in recent months, I'm more concerned about the potential for future legislation that will make buying ammo difficult or even impossible. I want to be able to "roll my own" if and when the anti's try to disarm us by further restricting ammo availability and sales.

All that being said, my budget is more in the $350 range for equipment, then the cost of components will be on top of that. I have all the hand tools already (including calipers), and a stout bench in my shop that isn't being used right now. I went with the Lee Classic kit for just over $200, and getting another reloading manual, a digital scale, and 3 sets of dies will use up the remainder of my equipment budget.

I'm looking for ammo components right now. I already have 200-300 pieces of once-fired brass for each of my 3 calibers. I figure a couple of thousand bullets and primers and a couple of pounds of powder ought to get me started with a decent per-piece cost and an investment of only another $200-$300.

With a total investment of $550-$650 the economics make a lot more sense. 2200 - 2600 rounds at 25 cents per round savings will break even in one to two years. From that point on its all gravy

 

[Krogen]

With a total investment of $550-$650 the economics make a lot more sense. 2200 - 2600 rounds at 25 cents per round savings will break even in one to two years. From that point on its all gravy

I do like gravy!

I started handloading in the early 80's. Being young and impulsive, I didn't overthink the costs or break-even point. I wanted to handload and sure didn't like paying the cost of factory ammo, so I jumped right in. I bought an RCBS Ammo Crafter kit for $84, some components, got a little coaching from a buddy and was underway.

Thirty years later I have no idea, all things considered, if I would have spent more buying factory ammo rather than handloading. I do know that these days it costs a lot less and I shoot a lot more by handloading. Plus, I enjoy handloading and get to make loads tuned to my guns. It's a (lemme count...) win-win-win-win situation.

 

[rwsmith]

Tailor loads

When reloading you can use a wide range of projectiles, lead, jacketed and plated and load them to the levels you want. I shoot some of everything in my pistols, but I get a kick out of loading my 30-06 from 1800 fps lead to 2800 fps jacketed with a lot in between.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Us Mere Mortals

When reloading you can use a wide range of projectiles, lead, jacketed and plated and load them to the levels you want. I shoot some of everything in my pistols, but I get a kick out of loading my 30-06 from 1800 fps lead to 2800 fps jacketed with a lot in between.

Yep. Is that not the absolute truth... You point out another truth that many profess to be proficient at, and that is if I am willing to change/compromise/ignore what I REALLY want to shoot. The way I am beginning to understand it is that EACH of us wants to be in control of what we CHOOSE to shoot. This is a simple concept as long as we understand that there is ALWAYS someone ELSE who shoots the same caliber much cheaper than you could ever dream to, and does it by buying small quantities of components at will.

Yep we mere mortals will never be able to compete...

 

[WARCOLLECT]

Be careful cleaning old rounds. Don't tumble you could change the burn rate of the powder.Cylindrical powder could change to fine powder.
They could also discharge in tumbler.If they shoot good don't fix em.
When getting new data for loads I check several bullet manufactures
books.I have seen loads in one book have the absolute max load and in another book that load is the starting point. When working up a load
I usually load three min and three just under max.I do this for each different powder.Check you primer
and case after shooting.Primer should be indented but not completely
flattened.Case should not split or bulge.A lot of people try for the hottest load possible.It is possible to over shoot your twist.I never
try to get the max RPM.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Good Points Made

Be careful cleaning old rounds. Don't tumble you could change the burn rate of the powder.Cylindrical powder could change to fine powder.
They could also discharge in tumbler.If they shoot good don't fix em.
When getting new data for loads I check several bullet manufactures books.I have seen loads in one book have the absolute max load and in another book that load is the starting point. When working up a load I usually load three min and three just under max.I do this for each different powder.Check you primer and case after shooting.Primer should be indented but not completely flattened.Case should not split or bulge.A lot of people try for the hottest load possible.It is possible to over shoot your twist.I never try to get the max RPM.

These are good points to remember. Thanks.

• I like the idea of starting with 3rd loaded at minimum and 3rd loaded at near maximum, in order to help with determining ideal loading.
• Good tips on what to look for once rounds are fired. As a newbie, I appreciate such tips.
• While I have 40rd of 50yr old reloads to clean, I will "wipe only" the lower cases with a naptha dampened rag while avoiding the bullet/case contact and the primer. The cases are very tacky after sitting for +50yr with the then coating of case lube. Had one already, that refused to eject after firing and had to be removed with the cleaning rod.

 

[Stimpy]

I have a Dillon tumbler, and per the manual, you can tumble completed rounds but you want to limit the time to 15-20 min. As for 50 yr old rounds it may be well set and may not even come off, but would be worth the try. I use the crushed walnut media and it cleans the lube off in about 10-15 min without issue.

 

[Boox]

hor-mike,
I ascribe to the KISS principle...the easy way around things if you will...When I started shooting handguns it became very apparent to me that I was gonna have to reload...box of 25 .45acp golden sabres was about 16.00, that's 65 cents a round...and it was real easy to shoot 100 of them in one outing. Today golden sabres, if you can find them are around 28.00 a box at my local gun store. I can buy 500 bullets for 75.00(.15 a bullet, .045 each for (locally bought) primers buying a few hundred at a time, my cases are free at this point, and 5 grains of bullseye is about a penny and a half...so the round costs me about .21 cents a round. That's 21.00 a hundred, or little more than 1/2 of what 100 Win White Box is at Wally world, when they have it.
.357 are about the same, .40 S&W a little more, 9mm a little less. I have over 500 rounds of each on the shelf. I shoot about 6000 rounds in a year in total including a lot of .22.
I reload all of these, and 5 rifle calibers now, on an old Pacific and a Lee anniversary press I bought used on eBay when I started out. I don't think I've spent 100 dollars on new stuff since I started. Everything is used, thank you eBay, garage sales, this forum. I don't have $450 invested and I have 2 Ohaus powder measures, 2 sets of Ohaus scales, a 10-5 and a 10-10, a redding powder measure that is dedicated to rifle powders, a real nice Thumbler tumbler to clean brass with, all my die sets(Lee, RCBS, Lyman), calipers, micrometer case trimmer and all the small pieces you need. I did it budgeted...$50.00 a month, as I said not too much is new, mostly all from eBay at less than 1/2 the price of new. My loading bench is a Library table I bought at a school auction for $5.00.
Now I load in the winter months to shoot in the warmer weather, BTW, I also do 12 and 20 ga for some shotgun fun. I do find it relaxing to sit down at the table and load a hundred or so...No phone, No wife nagging, the dogs outside, some blues on the stereo, a cup of coffee, as hickock says..."LIFE IS GOOD"

 

[Krogen]

I like the idea of starting with 3rd loaded at minimum and 3rd loaded at near maximum, in order to help with determining ideal loading.

This is an excellent approach, although you probably should consider finer increments; both to find the sweet spot and be cautious as you work up the charge. Some folks say to work up in 0.1 gr increments; others will say 0.5 gr or 1 gr increments. Not good! Using fixed increments is overly simplistic and unthinkingly dangerous, IMHO. It really depends on what you're loading. Are you loading 2.7 gr of Bullseye in a 38 Special? Or 115 gr of 4831 in your 378 Weatherby? In my opinion, you need should work up in increments that are a percentage of the max charge. Of course these are two extreme examples, but this approach holds just as well for your .357 and .222 Remington.

Here's a rule-of-thumb that works for me: Start out 10% below max. If you have experience with the load and are just changing relatively minor items like the primer, seating depth etc. you might start out at -5% from you previous load. Some powders (e.g. 296) should not be loaded lighter than -3% of max. Experience and the manufacturers will guide you. Then work up from your starting load in increments that are 2% of the maximum charge. Again with experience, you may find something other than 2% is better for you.

They key, as you said in your post, is to use a percentage increment.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Loading Increments

This is an excellent approach, although you probably should consider finer increments; both to find the sweet spot and be cautious as you work up the charge. Some folks say to work up in 0.1 gr increments; others will say 0.5 gr or 1 gr increments. Not good! Using fixed increments is overly simplistic and unthinkingly dangerous, IMHO. It really depends on what you're loading. Are you loading 2.7 gr of Bullseye in a 38 Special? Or 115 gr of 4831 in your 378 Weatherby? In my opinion, you need should work up in increments that are a percentage of the max charge. Of course these are two extreme examples, but this approach holds just as well for your .357 and .222 Remington.

Here's a rule-of-thumb that works for me: Start out 10% below max. If you have experience with the load and are just changing relatively minor items like the primer, seating depth etc. you might start out at -5% from you previous load. Some powders (e.g. 296) should not be loaded lighter than -3% of max. Experience and the manufacturers will guide you. Then work up from your starting load in increments that are 2% of the maximum charge. Again with experience, you may find something other than 2% is better for you.

They key, as you said in your post, is to use a percentage increment.

Here are the chosen powders I am planning on ordering, as recommended by the Lyman manual (have also ordered matched primers and 53gr bullets for .222 and 158gr JHP for the .357 to the same for each.

• H322 for the .222 Remington (min/max = 19.8--22.5gr)
• 2400 for the .357 (min/max = 11.3--14.9gr)

SOooo, 0.5gr increments for the .222 and 0.3gr increments for the .357 loads?

 

[Krogen]

SOooo, 0.5gr increments for the .222 and 0.3gr increments for the .357 loads?

Yep, looks good. By the way, it's certainly ok to begin with a manual's starting load even if it's further down than max-10%. Do be careful going below a manuals minimum, though, as it's possible to stick a bullet in the bore.

P.S. I assumed your stated min/max charges are correct. I didn't check!

 

[WARCOLLECT]

When working up a load.I start with 3 at min and 3 with less than max.
I load 5 to 10 different powders.
I load many different bullets.
check OAL over all length


I fill out attached chart . I write the results on the far right edge.
I pick out the best results and start working from there.