It's not the breed, it's the owner!

Like JohnSW, I too have mixed feelings about pit bulls. On the sensationalistic news programs & court shows, the pit figures heavily in personal injuries. Then I read something stating that the dog most apt to bite is the dachshund! Go figure. All I know is I stir clear of them & most dogs I don't know, whether its a "vicious breed" or not. I don't know how they were raised or trained, so its best not to take chances. People that raise animals to fight or be aggressive deserve the worst that can happen to them. Years ago when I was newly married, I was meeting some of my in laws. Later on I was told that one of the nephews I had met raised pits for fighting. My then wife & I had a pretty big blowout over that one, because I told her he was never to enter the house again, & if he did, I would throw him out myself. I don't care about tradition;if its wrong its wrong!
 
I'm on the dog's side so this is going to be biased.

recently there was a news story about a mail carrier that killed a dog on his route. He said he was afraid for his safety from the dog. He had been delivering on this route for some time and was familiar with the dog according to all involved. He hit the dog in the head and basically made it a brain dead dog so the owners put it to sleep.

Oh yeah, it was a 10lb terrier puppy. ggggrrrrrrrrr :mad:
 
timn8er said:
Like JohnSW, I too have mixed feelings about pit bulls. On the sensationalistic news programs & court shows, the pit figures heavily in personal injuries. Then I read something stating that the dog most apt to bite is the dachshund! Go figure. All I know is I stir clear of them & most dogs I don't know, whether its a "vicious breed" or not. I don't know how they were raised or trained, so its best not to take chances. People that raise animals to fight or be aggressive deserve the worst that can happen to them. Years ago when I was newly married, I was meeting some of my in laws. Later on I was told that one of the nephews I had met raised pits for fighting. My then wife & I had a pretty big blowout over that one, because I told her he was never to enter the house again, & if he did, I would throw him out myself. I don't care about tradition;if its wrong its wrong!
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I agree about the wiener dogs - my aunt used to raise them and they were the nastiest dogs I have ever had the displeasure to be around. My sister-in-law has a miniature one I call "spawn of satan".
 
My former next door neighbor had two pitbulls. He had one put down because it was mean.

I visited him at his new house recently and the other pitbull came running out jumped into my van and started to lick me wildly.

Both were raised in the same way, but one was mean and one was gentle. I believe there is a little bit of genetic behavior in there, but that can be curtailed usually.
 
Nurture

I believe that a dog that is treated well will not become aggressive. Some dogs, however, are just plain mean.

My wife the mail lady delivered mail in many different neighborhoods for over 25 years w/o getting bit. Animals can sense that she is a gentle person. Out of the blue,one day this one dog about ate her up.
 
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rwsmith said:
I believe that a dog that is treated well will not become aggressive. Some dogs, however, are just plain mean.

My wife the mail lady delivered main in many difference neighborhoods places for over 25 years w/o getting bit. Animals can sense that she is a gentle person. Out of the blue,one day this one dog about ate her up.
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Funny you should mention that. The last person killed here in NM was an older lady killed by her own dog. Her son came over to check on her and found her dead in the pitbull pen.
 
MY15-22 said:
Sounds like I heard this before, but not with dogs. :(
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Religion of Pace and all that.......:rolleyes:



Any way you slice it, dogs are still a bit more on the wild scale than humans. Face it; we domesticated them. They did not come to us looking to cut a deal: "I'll get you the paper and pee on the hydrants, and run off the Jehovas' Witness' on Saturday morning if you agree to feed me and walk me 3 times a week. Do we have a deal?? Arf!" :p

That certain breeds have traits which they wear like a badge of honor, is a FACT, not a behavioral pattern you can easily train out of them. And..... certain traits are MUCH stronger than other traits in dogs.
German Shepherds; protective, smart family dogs. Wanna get chewed ALIVE by the meanest, most ferocious dog you have ever seen??? Go start beating on a 7 year old walking a German Shepherd, and watch your leg turn into confetti in its' mouth. Very family protective dogs.
Labradors; got a cheeseburger you want to see demolished? Want to see a dog who will literally kill itself trying to please you? Look no further. They even hunt when they are allowed to... A pretty good nose on them.
Springers; you want to see lightning in a bottle, which is set off naturally by birds? Have yet to see a springer who did not keep his eye and nose on birds. It's his gig, and he does it without training if you let him explore. If you train him- he gets real good at it.
Beagles; want to never, ever have silence in your house, so long as the dog shall live???:cool: You simply can not train a beagle to be a quiet dog. Wonderful dogs..... but man, they talk up a storm.

And we can go down the list, but when we come to Pit bulls, we find that yeah, thru all the training and good family environment we can supply they are good dogs. But they are STILL dogs, and yes, they earn their reputation. What they have inside them; their special skillset is not to chase rabbits like a beagle. It's not to sniff out birds like a springer. .......It's not to handle extremely cold weather like a St. Bernard. A pit bull was, and always will be...... a dog of war. They were bred for fighting. It's in their DNA, and it ranks higher in their programming than it does in lets' say a Labrador. And THAT is why we WILL read about a good, loving family dog that kills a baby brought into the house by the family. And that dog...... is not going to be a lab. It's not going to be a Shepherd. It's not going to be a Springer, or an Irish Setter. It's going to be a pit.:(
To be fair; about 60% of all dog on human fatalities are from Rottweiler's, and they most certainly do not make up 60% of the dog population in the US. I think the fatality factor comes from the sheer size of the dog, whereas many breeds bite more people, they just do not have the power of the bigger breeds. (I don't think a Scottie would kill the average adult, but I got ripped by one pretty good as a kid. a little 15lb dog did a number on me. Go figure. Glad it wasn't a full size model....)

I say this with the full understanding of having had pig hunting dogs in my family in Hawaii growing up as a kid. Some were hunters. Some were straight fighters. Most were really nice dogs. And yet, the family dogs, dogs with litters, dogs who lived in the house indeed from time to time wound up going off the deep end, if even for a second, and damaged people. And not just ANY people. Family whom they slept with and rolled around on the floor with.
Would I have another pit as a pet? YES. But it would be always- ALWAYS treated with more scrutiny than my guns. 'Cause whether you like it or not......a pit is just as always loaded as any gun in your collection.
 
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flundertaker said:
I dont know, ive done everything I can think of to turn my 3 basset hounds into stone cold killers but so far its not working. I think the breed may have something to do with it.

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A man died just last week because his basset hound fell asleep on his foot and he suffered atrophy, which turned into withering disease as the dog slept for 8 days.:D
 
Over the last 25 years I've owned 8 Pit Bulls. Everyone of them spoiled rotten and as gentle as could be. I raised them like any other spoiled dog, with plenty of love and attention. One key is socializing them at an early age to people and other animals. I brought a little taco dog into the mix 4 years ago and not an ounce of trouble. They're all best buds. I'm a firm believer that their disposition is all in how you raise them. If you pay attention to the news, most of the Pit attacks are in the hood or owners that have them for the bling factor. They're chained up 24/7 and when they get loose they go crazy. Wouldn't you?
Here's my "vicious" Pit.

 
Of course the owners of dogs bear much of the responsibility, but ignoring the breeding of dogs for specific purposes is just foolish. Yes, there are gentle pit bulls and aggressive Golden Retrievers, but they are the exceptions not the rule. Dogs are the most malleable of all mammals. No other species of animal on earth is so varied in looks, size and temperament and so subject to selective breeding.

When a specific breed has been selectively bred for generations, or even hundreds of years for a specific purpose, and those who turn out differently are killed or at least not used for breeding, we will see that purpose or trait more and more ingrained in the breed.

Herding dogs who have been bred and selected for herding abilities for hundreds of years will try to herd animals or people or whatever even if they have never been individually trained to do so. And pit bulls who have been selected and bred for aggressiveness and fighting will tend to be that way, even if raised to be gentle family pets. Not all of them of course, but enough so that there is reason to be concerned about certain breeds behavior and not others.
 
vito said:
Of course the owners of dogs bear much of the responsibility, but ignoring the breeding of dogs for specific purposes is just foolish. Yes, there are gentle pit bulls and aggressive Golden Retrievers, but they are the exceptions not the rule. Dogs are the most malleable of all mammals. No other species of animal on earth is so varied in looks, size and temperament and so subject to selective breeding.

When a specific breed has been selectively bred for generations, or even hundreds of years for a specific purpose, and those who turn out differently are killed or at least not used for breeding, we will see that purpose or trait more and more ingrained in the breed.

Herding dogs who have been bred and selected for herding abilities for hundreds of years will try to herd animals or people or whatever even if they have never been individually trained to do so. And pit bulls who have been selected and bred for aggressiveness and fighting will tend to be that way, even if raised to be gentle family pets. Not all of them of course, but enough so that there is reason to be concerned about certain breeds behavior and not others.
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Yea so have Rottweiles, Dobermans, German Shepherd, Cane Corso, a lot of the Mastiffs. I don't hear legislation about them. Look up Tibet Mastiff and Caucasian shepherds. They will make a Pitt seem like a stuffed toy and yet no problems, in fact they live with many people and you wouldn't even know it. ....BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE MEDIA!

2 years ago I was bitten by a black Lab. Still have scars to prove it. I want all black labs controlled, registered and euthanized. Sounds fair?

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My 145# rottie scared anyone who seen her. She was a gentle giant. Never hurt anything. I still miss her. A part of me died with her. I never been attached to a dog so much. My family was so attached to the dog and loved the dog they all came over the day he died.
We all loved her and she loved us back.

You can make any dog mean it's just not cool.

I was bitten by a Beagle while on my motorcycle. And chased again by it another time. I went after it with the front wheel up hoping to smush it on my dirtbike(street legal). I had it chase me across traffic hoping to get it hit. They were warned to keep it leashed.

Seeing a dog coming at you pre knowing your going to get bit, and after being bit once knowing it's happening again isn't a fun thing.

I was almost bitten by a neighborhood pitbull too. I quickly shut off the dirtbike and the dog stopped too. I realize there's a pitch of the twostroke pipe that sets them off. It must hurt certain dogs in there ears. My point is shut off the bike quickly and the dog will stop.
 
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Although there may be exceptions, generally I believe it is a 50/50 genetic predisposition towards ingrained behavior.
The owner has a huge influence over the animal.
Some poorly socialized owners tend to gravitate to the fighting breeds and not discourage aggressive behavior. Some even encourage it!
This small segment of scumbag owners is what ultimately hurts the Pitty & Pit mix PR.
 
THE PILGRIM said:
Every time I almost feel like backing off on pitbulls, they kill somebody else here in NM. The owners are most certainly a major part of the problem.
But when the problem people have the problem dogs, it can get ugly in a hurry for the rest of us. That is the problem.
The pitbulls have so much jaw power that an attack by them often turns deadly.
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One more misconception .

"Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any
other breed." This is absolutely false.

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch.
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328.
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.


I do believe that Pits have a higher than average desire to please it's owner . That makes then susceptible to being used for fighting and trained to be aggressive .

My Pit is just a big baby . LOVES people , other Alpha dogs ... not so much .


George
 
They're bred to fight. It's even in their name.
What pit do you think they are referring to?
 
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