LVSteve
Member
Not really. I think it has been less cold this winter out West.
It's Official: Texas has achieved Third-World Status
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Not really. I think it has been less cold this winter out West.
OP
Right on. The problem is that you're thinking logically and rationally. Unfortunately, logic and rationality have little to do with Texas energy policy. The mantra is, "Cheap, Cheap, Cheap." This results in cutting corners and planning only for the best case scenario. Ten years ago, we had a similar arctic event with power outages, albeit not as widespread. Recommendations to prevent a repeat of the 2011 breakdowns were made, but not implemented, so history repeated itself.
Why the obsession with cheap energy? It's Texas' love of Big Bidness. Texas has a policy of aggressively encouraging every corporation in the world to relocate their headquarters to Texas. It's "Come to Texas and Save Big Bucks!" Unfortunately, the unintended consequence of Texas cheap energy policy results in "Come to Texas and Have You and Your Employees Suffer in Extreme Cold and/or Heat When the Power Fails." Corporate CEOs considering relocating here must have been thoroughly unimpressed by what happened this week. Texas is going to have to rebuild its image as business friendly by overhauling its tinker-toy power system to provide for better reliability. If corporations stop coming here until that happens, then improvements are sure to follow, because money speaks.
Do you have a cat?
The most likely problem/cause is the same thing that happens where I work, its called lack/loss of give a darn. This is followed up by a case of lazy, we had a few things freeze up at the plant that should have been taken care of before the deep cold.
Run the math. It'll never be more than a stunt.
Input 1kW/m^2
panel efficiency (be generous) 10%
So, 100w/m^2
The wing area of a 747 is 554 m^2 so 55kW
FWIW, it takes 90 megawatts for a 747 to take off.
And that's the issue with panels (and windmills)- Low Energy Density
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Quite an achievement. Looking up the costing, it's about $8 billion for 2 GWe with a 20 year estimated lifespan. I'll be curious as to how this pans out.
Green energy = SCAM
According to that graph, natural gas generation failed Texas.
Nobody is claiming solar airplanes will solve our transportation needs. I pointed out that it was possible to ferry people across an ocean with the current limits of the state of the art.
Panels and windmills didn't break Texas. Something baby something bath water.
Fair 'nuff. A person in an ultralight plane. But no improvement will turn kilowatts/m2 into megawatts/m2. The source term just isn't there.
Not so sure about that. If grid stability is a consideration, intermittents should be kept at a minimum (note Mr. Moore's post above). That said, there's plenty of blame to go around.
If Texas still had all of its Coal fired plants in operation like the 80s power would be no problem............
You failed to take into account the Biden administration told ERCOT to stay within green energy standards by purchasing energy from outside the state at a higher cost, throttling power output throughout the state ahead of a major storm. I hope we saved the planet by throttling back!
Issued Feb. 14th
LVSteve
Member
I have read the full text, and the legalese has beat me as to where it says to purchase extra juice from outside ERCOT. Please advise.
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/f...202(c) Emergency Order - ERCOT 02.14.2021.pdf
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
You misread the order, it says the opposite of what you wrote. It gives the utility permission to use every asset at it's disposal, even if running those power plants violates environmental law.
False History shows us that in both 1989 and 2011 Texas had its grid go down during winter cold due to coal fired generators freezing up. If you don't prep and maintain your equipment it don't matter what the source is. If you had a spanking new nuclear reactor and the cooling system wasn't protected from freeze up during the cold it would have took a dump too. Even if you use sodium in the reactor itself you still need good old water to make the steam to spin the turbine connected to the generator.
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The concept that a plane can fly. No way to have enough solar panels to fly a passenger plane of freight plane. No way to carry enough batteries either,
You're the only one talking about flying freight on a solar plane.
Need solar-powered freight hauled? There's a boat for that.
World's First Cargo Ship Propelled by Solar Panels
Just because tech hasn't advanced to the point of your desires -yet- doesn't mean it won't. Have some imagination.
Maybe add a few windmills? LOL
I'm guessing the smoke and mirrors started when there was no credible response to the specifics in this post:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/141064552-post13.html
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From the article: " propelled in part". A very small part. Again, the source term isn't there.
There's a better way to move cargo without oil than panels:
No need to wait for development, the technology is mature.
Matey.
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This "it doesn't fix all the wrongs, so it's all wrong" tack is an absolutist position that rejects incremental improvement.
I've seen similar arguments with guns, where if it doesn't fill one specific niche, it's discounted wholesale.
I've seen similar arguments with guns, where if it doesn't fill one specific niche, it's discounted wholesale.
LVSteve
Member
Interesting article in Texas Monthly that leaves blood up just about everybody's wall.
The Texas Blackout Is the Story of a Disaster Foretold – Texas Monthly
Was particularly taken by this paragraph.
The Texas Blackout Is the Story of a Disaster Foretold – Texas Monthly
Was particularly taken by this paragraph.
Cost-benefit? I guess it depends on how much being dead you can take.
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I'll make the assumption you're talking about "renewables". Solar/wind are great for small, off-grid , distributed service. See them all the time running isolated installations and they're fine.
Where the problems arise is in trying to shoehorn those technologies into areas where they're not suited- grid level power generation being the one at issue in this thread. No amount of incremental improvement can change the net solar insolation nor the energy density of moving wind. One can't extract what's not there.
In a similar vein, you don't hunt Cape Buffalo with a .22 Savage, and you don't shoot squirrels with a .338 Lapua.
Horses for courses.
Looking at a graph of Energy Returned on Investment may be clarifying here. Investment being the energy necessary to build the power source, Energy Returned being the amount of energy you get back through operations.
In the below graph, "buffered" means with batteries, unbuffered means without. Dispatchable sources, of course, have both terms equal.
I just stumbled back onto this fun discussion. I like what Lee Jarrett said. But this made me laugh:
Thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!
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