I've got brag a little
- Thread starter model14
- Start date
10-12
Member
Some days I can't remember where I put the gun.
That is some kind of shooting.
Bill
That is some kind of shooting.
Bill
Paulie686
Member
THAT is GREAT shooting! To think, some people actually think Revolvers are OBSOLETE. Bet they couldn't get groups like THAT with their "Fantastic Plastic" guns. Paulie686.
Sunkist
Member
You still have bragging rights, IMHO. I've never tried paper at 100 yds w/ my 686 but I do have a good time shooting at clay pidgeons.
Nice shooting.
Sunkist
Nice shooting.
Sunkist
stevieboy
Member
Groups like the ones you've shot at 100 yards are outstanding. I read a lot of handgun reviews and I've noticed the tendency to praise the accuracy of whatever striker fired semiauto that's being reviewed when it gives a bench rested 25 yard group of 3 inches or so. Your results underscore what I've always believed, that well-made revolvers such as the 686 are simply intrisically more accurate than are the mass produced semiautos. The semis have their purpose but it's laughable to talk about their accuracy when, in fact, they're just not all that accurate.
keppelj
Member
Model 14, what's your source for those targets? They look easier to focus on than a black spot at 100 yards.
Targets are homemade using a Cad program. I have tried different designs and I have settled on the the white one as best. I have learned that even with a seven power scope, it is mandatory that I focus on the cross hairs and not the target. If you try and focus on the target also it will drive you nuts. With 7 power, you just can't hold the gun still enough, even using a rest, to keep the cross hairs on the target lines. The slightest movement (like .001") of the barrel will show up in your target picture as a very noticeable movement against the target. I think if you just put up an 8X11 piece of paper, focus on the scope cross hairs, and let your sight picture settle into centered on the paper (just a fuzzy background), you are going to do your best shooting. Now this is easier said than done. It is very mental. Probably a third of my shots take two attempts at the hammer falling. If the wind is gusting it is an almost impossible situation for me. The revolver is not in any way locked into a set position. There is a lot of movement going on.
keppelj
Member
Thanks for having the patience to continue this discussion a little, 14. I ran into a fellow who had done this with a 4" 686 and scope and gotten golf ball sized groups until the Nosler 125 HP he was using quit being manufactured. Pretty remarkable. I've tried it with a not good enough red dot, gotten hooked on the mental aspect, but stymied by the funky flare dot. My best bullet for my 6" 686 has also been 125's, these from Montana Gold. They've been quite good at 50 yards from a ransom rest. Back to your comments, it sounds like you are saying you'd aim at a 8x11 sheet w/o any graphics on it, yes?
My point is that with a scope, you may be better off using a plain piece of paper, so that you don't get stressed about holding the cross hairs still against a patterned background as you stack the trigger. I haven't tried that yet but I intend to do so. I believe I have read several target shooting articles where a blank sheet is suggested. Again, the point is that this is a mental game (assuming your equipment is up to the task). If you focus on the cross hairs, centering on the blank sheet will just fall into place, or so they say.
keppelj
Member
Interesting. I took a marksmanship class once where the first problem was to put a bullet in the center of a hanging sheet of paper (indoor range). I shot the first shot, then the second, which went into the same hole as the first. I was amazed. There must be something in your idea. I'll give it a try.
The target I use at 100 yards with 2X and 4X scoped handguns is square of paper with the corners vertical.
I take an 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper and fold along a line at 8 1/2" to make a square. I staple it with the points up and down. It allows good indication of cross hair alignment.
The top target I posted on the 1st page of this thread is one of these.
I worked with various targets for iron sight handgun shooting at 100 yards, and one with an inverted "T" seemed to work well. The vertical bar the same width the front sight subtends at whatever distance, and the horizontal bars having a gap or space of white between them and the vertical bar.
These targets were a pain to make so I just use a target with a large (6"+) black round bullseye.
I take an 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper and fold along a line at 8 1/2" to make a square. I staple it with the points up and down. It allows good indication of cross hair alignment.
The top target I posted on the 1st page of this thread is one of these.
I worked with various targets for iron sight handgun shooting at 100 yards, and one with an inverted "T" seemed to work well. The vertical bar the same width the front sight subtends at whatever distance, and the horizontal bars having a gap or space of white between them and the vertical bar.
These targets were a pain to make so I just use a target with a large (6"+) black round bullseye.
Capt Steve
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As Mohammad Ali once said to Howard Cosell;
It ain't braggin if you can do it!"
It ain't braggin if you can do it!"
redfisherdave
Member
I thought Yogi Berra said that
Sportsterguy
Member
I'll second that as I've seen a butt load of folks who can't shoot a 2" group with their scoped rifles sandbagged on the bench.
Got yourself one heck of a deer gun there and great shooting!!
mode14, great shooting with your 686. Long range benchrest revolver is a game I played around with quite a bit a number of years ago. A few suggestions I would make based on my own stumbling and learning would be to first get a parallax adjustable scope of at least 10 power with a fine-plex reticule, kind of a specialized tool but necessary for the game. I also found that at 100 yards a four inch circle, white in the center and drawn with a quarter inch black line was perfect for me. You can attach a scope level to eliminate that problem and the small circle was easy to divide with the fine-plex. If you use vertical or horizontal lines they can muddy up the cross hair and the lined target also always need to be checked with a level before shooting for groups. Another tip would be to cast your own bullets, this is one area that allows you to fine tune the bullet to your gun, and can also drive you crazy at times! Your gun will also probably like a 180 grain bullet more than the light ones. No of this is meant to criticize only only to maybe help, your shooting is plenty good and worth the brag.
I seem to remember an article by Wiley Clapp years ago shooting a 686 that he said was the most accurate revolver he had ever handled, so you might just have the best tool right off the bat.
Keith
I seem to remember an article by Wiley Clapp years ago shooting a 686 that he said was the most accurate revolver he had ever handled, so you might just have the best tool right off the bat.
Keith
bis45,
Thanks for the info. I know very little about scopes. What does the parallax adjustment do for me? How does that work? Isn't 10X just going to make the movement seem worse and cause more frustration during the squeeze? Also, how important is having the cross hairs held exactly horizonatl/vertical, even though they are centered on the target? I will definitely do away with lines on my targets. Please see my recent post in Reloading.
Thanks for the info. I know very little about scopes. What does the parallax adjustment do for me? How does that work? Isn't 10X just going to make the movement seem worse and cause more frustration during the squeeze? Also, how important is having the cross hairs held exactly horizonatl/vertical, even though they are centered on the target? I will definitely do away with lines on my targets. Please see my recent post in Reloading.
bis45,
I called Thompson Center. Turns out my scope parallax is set for 100 yards, so I at least don't have to worry about that. Another question:
How important is it that I am looking along the axis of the scope (line of sight from the eyeball is centered on the scope lense)? With such a long eye relief, it is easy to put the cross hairs on the target and then realize you are looking at the lense at an angle.
I called Thompson Center. Turns out my scope parallax is set for 100 yards, so I at least don't have to worry about that. Another question:
How important is it that I am looking along the axis of the scope (line of sight from the eyeball is centered on the scope lense)? With such a long eye relief, it is easy to put the cross hairs on the target and then realize you are looking at the lense at an angle.
UnderDawgAl
Member
Good shooting, model14! So good, in fact, that it might qualify for an episode of "Myth Busters," or at least for a new series entitled "Generally Accepted Principles Busters." Why?
(1) Generally Accepted Principle -- Newer Smiths with internal locks and MIM parts just don't have the intrinsic quality fitting of parts and tight construction necessary for accurate shooting that the older Smiths have.
BUSTED!!
(2) Generally Accepted Principle -- The Model 14 is the most accurate out-of-the-box .35 cal revolver S&W made, particularly the older ones (see above).
BUSTED!!
Now, I say all this as a guy who has an old Model 17-1 and is hankering for an early Model 14. I have a 686-1 6" that shoots tight groups with my reloads. I don't like the IL and newer shaped cylinder thumb latch, so I tend to appreciate only the older S&Ws. Now you've got me questioning the sanity of moving "up" from the 686 to the 14. Heck, you might have just saved me $400!
(1) Generally Accepted Principle -- Newer Smiths with internal locks and MIM parts just don't have the intrinsic quality fitting of parts and tight construction necessary for accurate shooting that the older Smiths have.
BUSTED!!
(2) Generally Accepted Principle -- The Model 14 is the most accurate out-of-the-box .35 cal revolver S&W made, particularly the older ones (see above).
BUSTED!!
Now, I say all this as a guy who has an old Model 17-1 and is hankering for an early Model 14. I have a 686-1 6" that shoots tight groups with my reloads. I don't like the IL and newer shaped cylinder thumb latch, so I tend to appreciate only the older S&Ws. Now you've got me questioning the sanity of moving "up" from the 686 to the 14. Heck, you might have just saved me $400!
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