Jacketed Bullets in .38 spl

[palmetto99]

I'm pulling together items to start reloading .38 spl. While reading through my reloading manual, I came across the comment that "heavy" (over 135 grn.) jacketed bullets shouldn't be used with standard .38 loads. I picked up some 158 grn jacketed bullets and now I'm thinking that I should hold onto these for some future .357 rounds. Any one use heavy jacketed rounds in .38 spl loads?

 

[505Gibbs]

I'm pulling together items to start reloading .38 spl. While reading through my reloading manual, I came across the comment that "heavy" (over 135 grn.) jacketed bullets shouldn't be used with standard .38 loads. I picked up some 158 grn jacketed bullets and now I'm thinking that I should hold onto these for some future .357 rounds. Any one use heavy jacketed rounds in .38 spl loads?

I confess I don't have all my loading manuals memorized so I'd like to know which one made this comment!
I've got one of the more recent Sierra manuals and it has loads for the 38 spl up to its 180g offering with no disclaimers so this sounds like an unusual comment - IMO.

 

[redhawk444]

I think the comment about not using jacketed bullets of over 130 gr. is a little over blown. However it may be smart to keep the loads up to at least 750 fps. though.

On the other hand, the need for jacketed bullets in the .38 Special questionable. A good cast bullet sized to match the diameter of the cylinder throats will generally shoot as well as a jacketed bullet and they run about 1/2 the price.

 

[palmetto99]

The manual is the latest Speer. I've got an older manual (from the early 1980's and I don't remember the name) that doesn't list jacketed bullets over 140 grn. for the .38 spl either.

 

[Jellybean]

I don't usually use jacketed bullets, of any weight, in a standard .38 load due to poor expansion. But this isn't what they are concerned about. They are worried about bullets getting stuck in the bore from low pressures, especially in firerarms with larger throats that might allow gas to escape or lighter loads.

 

[Bullet Bob]

In my short 40 year career as an S&W .38 Special fan, I have shot approx. one gazillion 158 JHP's at over 850 fps with no problem. YMMV

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I have witnessed several incidents of jacketed bullets lodged in .38 special revolver barrels. Every incident involved low-density loadings of fast-burning powders (such as Bullseye).

My conclusion is that ignition problems can result from very low density powder charges in the .38 special case.

I have personally loaded many thousands of .38 special with all sorts of cast and jacketed bullets. I stick with slower burning powders for jacketed bullet loads and have never had a problem.

 

[505Gibbs]

The manual is the latest Speer. I've got an older manual (from the early 1980's and I don't remember the name) that doesn't list jacketed bullets over 140 grn. for the .38 spl either.

Is it possible that the reason they don't have a load is that they thenselves don't offer the heavier bullets as part of their portfolio?
Just a thought!

 

[FrankD45]

As stated by someone, I agree that the restriction is probably based on heavy bullets with light loads. A heavy (158gr) jacketed bullet, especially one intended for a .357 magnum, should not be loaded for mid-range velocities in a .38 Special. This is especially true with older pistols, like the Colt Army Special which may have a rough bore that can lead to a bullet(s) getting stuck and bulging the barrel. Don't ask me how I know this.

Frank

 

[palmetto99]

I don't have my Speer manual in front of me, but I recall that there is a +P listing for a 158 grn jacketed round.

 

[cjw3]

They shoot alright, but as someone mentioned don't expect much in the way of expansion, at least with the heavier weights. Not enough velocity.

 

[Steve C]

There's just not enough velocity available from the .38 spl to get any expansion from jacketed bullets over 140gr. The general rule is 1,000 fps at the muzzle minimum to get expansion from conventional JHP's. At 900fps its pushing it, even with some of the most modern bullets. A soft lead HP without jacket is best for .38 spl velocities if you want to use a 158gr expanding bullet.

For paper punching and just plain shooting there's nothing wrong with 158gr jacketed bullets in the .38 spl. They're not going to get stuck in the barrel with any load at start level (-10%) or up to max as listed in data that's been around for many years. While the JHP's and JSP's may not expand that doesn't mean they're not dangerous to life and limb. Plenty of people killed by jacketed RN ammo without expansion and they'll still make a hole in what you shoot, probably go clean through a man.

 

[BUCKAWHO]

Jacketed 38 SPLs

Hi....Some years ago, Western offered 158 gr. FMJs in 38 SPL. They were loaded in nickel cases. I have a full box. BT

 

[Alk8944]

palmetto99,

At the performance level of the .38 Spl, even +P, there is nothing a 158 gr. jacketed bullet will do that a cast bullet won't. That said, Sierra and Hodgdon have plenty of data for 158 gr. jacketed bullets, both standard and +P. Hodgdon is also the distributor for Winchester and IMR, and has data for these and it's own brands available on-line at www.hodgdon.com in the Reloading Data Center. Even the loads listed as +P are quite conservative (pressure/velocity actual) and optimistic (velocity as claimed) for standard .38 loads.

For Sierra data you will have to buy the book. If you have a couple specific powders in mind I would give you some selected data from the Fifth (V) edition Sierra manual.

 

[BUFF]

As mentioned, it is hard to get the heavier .38 Special jacketed bullets up to a velocity where they will expand without going overboard on pressure. If you are looking for expansion, look at lighter jacketed hollowpoints.

However, I have found many reloaders like loading and shooting jacketed bullets because their guns stay a lot cleaner than when they shoot lead bullets. Some folks just don't like cleaning the soot and other crud left behind from cast and swaged bullets' lubricants.

Others seem unduly afraid of "leading" their bores.

Seems to me a high price to pay, buying jacketed bullets, just for that, but, to each their own.

About the only jacketed bullets I use in the .38 Special are 110 grainers. With a good, stiff charge of Unique, these screeming meemies are havoc on small varmints like jackrabbits, ground squirrels and gophers out of my K-38.

 

[cabezaverde]

I had a couple of boxes of old Remington 158 grain SJHP's that I was given.

I loaded some up under a modest charge of W231 for my son to try in his Charter Arms Undercover. They shot well, and I was shocked that the ones we recovered were absolutely turned inside out after hitting damp soil.

I wonder if the current ones are that soft.

 

[Alk8944]

I had a couple of boxes of old Remington 158 grain SJHP's that I was given.

I loaded some up under a modest charge of W231 for my son to try in his Charter Arms Undercover. They shot well, and I was shocked that the ones we recovered were absolutely turned inside out after hitting damp soil.

I wonder if the current ones are that soft.

Damp soil or sand is not a good indicator of bullet performance. Because they offer much more resistance that flesh, ballistic gelatin or water, virtually any bullet will show expansion in these except for hard cast bullets and full jacketed. If you shot your loads against a steel plate they would spatter too, just another extreme of a too resistant target to judge bullet performance by.

 

[cabezaverde]

Damp soil or sand is not a good indicator of bullet performance. Because they offer much more resistance that flesh, ballistic gelatin or water, virtually any bullet will show expansion in these except for hard cast bullets and full jacketed. If you shot your loads against a steel plate they would spatter too, just another extreme of a too resistant target to judge bullet performance by.

I agree, except that I have recovered a large number of JHP's of other types that look as though they could be washed off and loaded again.

 

[cp1969]

I agree, except that I have recovered a large number of JHP's of other types that look as though they could be washed off and loaded again.

Same here. You never know what you're going to get.

A friend of mine, shooting at a crow, put a 75 gr HP bullet from a .250 Savage into a plowed field. It hit the ground, veered 30-45 degrees off course, traveled nearly a mile and shattered a plate glass window and embedded itself in the living room sheetrock of a neighbor's home.

Needless to say, the neighbor was not amused. I didn't get to witness the shot but I did get to witness the butt chewing. It was awesome.

But the supposed 'varmint' bullet showed very little damage. Only the tip of the nose was bent a little off to one side.

 

[lebomm]

+1 to Bullet Bob's post. I started handloading about 1961 with the .38 S&W, and graduated soon thereafter to the .38 Spl. I've shot thousands of JHPs, Speer 1/2 jackets, and FMJs thru my .38s, long and short bbls, fast & slow loads, and even more cast bullets. The only time I ever had a bullet fail to exit was in my 5" Mk IV Webley, a .38 S&W load with an R-P case, and Speer 160gr half-jacket over 1.5 gr. Bullseye. Even then, the bullet stopped with its ogive sticking out of the muzzle, the end of the half-jacket just showing.
I don't think you need to worry about using jacketed bullets in your .38 Spl, as long the velocities are kept around "service levels".

Good shooting
Larry