Jam on snapcap M&P2 at test with FFL

[circuitbear]

So, first and foremost, I'm a bit new with pistols so if I use improper terminology or ask something obvious, I apologize.


So I ordered the following firearm for mostly home defense and later perhaps concealed carry:


SMITH AND WESSON M+P 9 M2.0 PORTED BBL/SLIDE C.O.R.E OPT READY


I got a list of things to check from a friend when it made it to the ffl and proceeded to do so, checking the markings on the firearm for the right model, the sights and then looking for obvious damage.


The last step he gave me was to dry fire. Now, this is where I may have made a mistake. I understand vaguely what dry firing is, but I wasn't sure if there was an extra step, so I asked the ffl "how do you dry fire". His response was to to get me a snapcap and let me use that.



So I loaded the snapcap into the magazine and tried "firing" it it the most "true to life" test. Instead of popping it inside the chamber directly. When I pulled the trigger, there was a click feeling but the orange dummy bullet didn't pop out, so I tried pulling back on the slide to get it out and unlike the first time, I felt it hit resistance.



At this point I wasn't sure what to do and I didn't want to brute force it, but I wasn't particularly gentle either. When the FFL came back, he tried and admitted he had also not seen it jam in this way unless it had been disassembled and put back together wrong. He recommended bringing it to a gunsmith.



So I have two questions:


1) What might have caused this and how can it be fixed?
2) My background check got delayed(It seemed like the system was having issuess at the time) so I didn't take the firearm with me. My understanding is the moment I remove the firearm from the ffl I can't call it defective. Should I refuse to take it?



I am not sure how serious this is and with three people far more experienced then me all claiming this is rather bizarre, I'm a bit anxious. Taking a new firearm to be repaired seems strange.

 

[Okie21]

I don't fully understand what you did.
Did you put the snapcap directly into the chamber?
Or did you put it in the magazine?
And now it's stuck and won't eject?

If you haven't taken it home, then don't accept it if the gun shop can't get it functional.
If you did already take possession of it, and can't get the stuck round out, call S&W. They're lifetime warranty is excellent.

You can also take some pics and post them here. Seeing exactly what it looks like may allow someone here to see the problem and help you correct it.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[swsig]

Two possibilities:

1. You didn't rack the slide hard enough. Snap caps do not eject themselves. The force placed on a slide by a fired round is far greater than you can apply with your hand, so don't baby it.

2. If the slide won't move enough to eject the snap cap, the recoil spring assembly may have slipped out of place because it was not installed correctly (straight and level, fully contacting the barrel lug). In this case the guide rod may be sticking out of the front of the slide. Grab it, pull it and wiggle it, and it may snap into its proper position. Then go ahead and forcefully rack the slide.

Good luck with your new M&P, they are fine pistols. And welcome to the Forum!

 

[circuitbear]

I don't fully understand what you did.
Did you put the snapcap directly into the chamber?
Or did you put it in the magazine?
And now it's stuck and won't eject?

If you haven't taken it home, then don't accept it if the gun shop can't get it functional.
If you did already take possession of it, and can't get the stuck round out, call S&W. They're lifetime warranty is excellent.

You can also take some pics and post them here. Seeing exactly what it looks like may allow someone here to see the problem and help you correct it.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Sorry, I thought I was clear but I was slightly rushing.


I put the snapcap in the magazine and loaded the magazine into the mp2 to load the snapcap in. I hit the.. slide release I think is the name for it, which closes the slide. Then pulled the trigger. I -think- that is the full process I did.



Yes it is stuck and I can't pull the slide back(without putting significant force. I didn't try just pulling with everything).


I didn't think to take pictures at the time and that was my mistake. And it is still with the FFL.



Thank you for your advice. The warranty was something I should have known about before but I forgot to read up on

 

[Saudade]

If you have not checked out with it (final signatures) I would not take it until they can make it function properly.

I am a bit surprised (well, not so much really) that the FFL didn't address it immediately. I've seen some pretty ratty looking snap caps at FFLs. It's possible it may contribute to the issue. As far as disassemble and reassemble incorrectly, who would have done that?

So you do have some punctuation issues that made your post a bit confusing. What I read was that you loaded from the magazine, released the slide (slingshot?), and pulled the trigger. Gun went "CLICK" as it should. But you couldn't rack the slide to eject the snapcap?

Racking the slide is more like a punch than a push. When a round goes off, there's 35,000 PSI pressure in the barrel. New guns are harder to rack than used typically. Perhaps you just need to use a bit more authority.

The other 2 responders make great points too.

Keep us informed and welcome to the forum!!

 

[hogblue]

The gun is still the property of the FFL. His snap cap is in his gun. He needs to remove it and make the gun operational before I would finish the transaction.

If he doesn't make it right I myself would walk away.

JMHO.

 

[circuitbear]

If you have not checked out with it (final signatures) I would not take it until they can make it function properly.

I am a bit surprised (well, not so much really) that the FFL didn't address it immediately. I've seen some pretty ratty looking snap caps at FFLs. It's possible it may contribute to the issue. As far as disassemble and reassemble incorrectly, who would have done that?

So you do have some punctuation issues that made your post a bit confusing. What I read was that you loaded from the magazine, released the slide (slingshot?), and pulled the trigger. Gun went "CLICK" as it should. But you couldn't rack the slide to eject the snapcap?

Racking the slide is more like a punch than a push. When a round goes off, there's 35,000 PSI pressure in the barrel. New guns are harder to rack than used typically. Perhaps you just need to use a bit more authority.

The other 2 responders make great points too.

Keep us informed and welcome to the forum!!

My apologies for the poor punctuation.


Your description is accurate.


1. Pulled the slide back to make sure I could first.
2. Loaded snapcap into clip
3. I then loaded the clip with one snapcap in it, into the gun.

4. Pushed button on the gun that caused the slide to close(I thought this was referred to as the release).
5. I then pulled the trigger assuming the snapcap would pop out(which I learned from this thread isn't the case.) I got a click but nothing significant.
6. I tried to grip the back of the slide and pull back(which as I understand is "racking the slide"). The slide would slip back a couple millimeters at most and then hit enough resistance to make me stop.


I will try what people recommend and put more force into it when the background check system is working correctly and he calls me back in.



I already paid for it when I ordered it, so I am not sure how walking away would end.



But I will update this thread with the results and what happens after attempting the suggestions here.

 

[edubbie]

Pardon me if I am offensive but my suggestion is to take a beginner course from a qualified trainer at a gun range. They will familiarize you with your weapon, discuss safety and teach proper shooting techniques. Well worth the money.

 

[hogblue]

Didn't realize you had paid for it. I would still let the FFL remove the snap cap he insisted you use. Dry firing the 2.0 without a snap cap is a non issue. It's another way to release the striker to disassemble the firearm rather than pushing down the lever in the magazine well.

 

[SoCalDep]

The snap cap is likely causing the malfunction by being slightly out of spec. This can occur over time due to the repeated impacts of chambering, ejecting, and impacting the floor/ground. I've seen it dozens of times with both snap caps and out-of-spec live rounds.

The fix is to grip the slide by the rear serrations in an overhand grip with your non-dominant hand and hold on... then use the web of the dominant hand to quickly and forcefully strike the grip tang. Don't miss or it hurts. Don't let go or it falls. Since it's a snap cap and not a live round you could find a soft surface to do this over and avoid damage if you loose your grasp.

Based on my experience with several thousand M&P pistols and lots of other guns as well as my experience with what you are describing you likely do not need a gunsmith. There is nothing wrong with the gun. Throw away the snap cap and try a different one or none at all. I've been dry firing without snap caps for over 20 years and while I've broken lots of gun parts, I've never, and rarely see broken firing pins.

 

[stansdds]

Pardon me if I am offensive but my suggestion is to take a beginner course from a qualified trainer at a gun range. They will familiarize you with your weapon, discuss safety and teach proper shooting techniques. Well worth the money.

I could not agree more! Please, please, please, take a firearms training course. It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with firearms or at least semi-automatic pistols. Please, please, please, take a firearms training course! You will not regret it and you will be much better for it.

 

[BB4XL]

The snap cap is likely causing the malfunction by being slightly out of spec. This can occur over time due to the repeated impacts of chambering, ejecting, and impacting the floor/ground. I've seen it dozens of times with both snap caps and out-of-spec live rounds.

The fix is to grip the slide by the rear serrations in an overhand grip with your non-dominant hand and hold on... then use the web of the dominant hand to quickly and forcefully strike the grip tang. Don't miss or it hurts. Don't let go or it falls. Since it's a snap cap and not a live round you could find a soft surface to do this over and avoid damage if you loose your grasp.

Based on my experience with several thousand M&P pistols and lots of other guns as well as my experience with what you are describing you likely do not need a gunsmith. There is nothing wrong with the gun. Throw away the snap cap and try a different one or none at all. I've been dry firing without snap caps for over 20 years and while I've broken lots of gun parts, I've never, and rarely see broken firing pins.

Did you use a real snap cap or an Orange dummy round? Snap caps usually have a spring inside and cushion the firing pin or striker, It sound like when you released the slide the force jammed the dummy into the barrel past the chamber. As said just clear it as described. It sounds to me the FFL has little knowledge of guns.

I do not mean to sound rude,but Please get some training before you have an accident. This is not a learn as you go situation.

 

[oldiegoldie]

if it were me, i'd get a dowel of correct size and insert into barrel and use a hammer to tap the dowel. it might release a stuck snapcap. resist the urge to use a 10# sledge.

 

[kwh]

Problem: Dummy round stuck in chamber, unable to apply enough force to retract slide.
One solution: Use edge of wooden work bench or table. Grip firearm with muzzle down and place top lip of slide (end with front sight) on edge of, and facing down on the table. Be sure barrel hangs off edge of table so it will not touch table when pistol is pushed down. Push straight down.
Take it easy at first so you do not accidentally let the slide slip off the table edge. (Don't want to scratch slide or front sight.) Apply sharp downward force as necessary.
This has always worked for me when slide was too difficult to manually retract.

 

[circuitbear]

I could not agree more! Please, please, please, take a firearms training course. It sounds like you are very unfamiliar with firearms or at least semi-automatic pistols. Please, please, please, take a firearms training course! You will not regret it and you will be much better for it.

Thank you for the advice. I take no offense and I entirely agree with you and the other who suggested it. I was planning on doing training within the month(would be sooner but sadly dealing with some house issues). I only got it ahead of time because of the current market and finding something reputable being a bit.. challenging, I happened across this offer and grabbed it while it was available.



I will comment I am more familiar with shotguns and rifles(bolt action) but those are still beginning level and a lack of maintenance knowledge. So I planned to shore up that as soon as I can.

 

[JJEH]

Just saw this thread, I'm a bit confused as to what exactly happened but I'd like you to refer to this article.

Hand Cycling Ammo in Semi Autos as a Means of Reliability Testing

Is it in fact due to hand cycling, then that problem means nothing. You'll have to use live ammo to reliable check the cycles of a firearm.

 

[Fulton722]

If this FFL / salesman has any ethics whatsoever, he knows that HIS snap cap probably caused this problem. During your absence, I would hope that he has acted responsibly, and has removed the snap cap, and upon your return, he will demonstrate to you that YOUR pistol is now functioning properly.

For him to just do nothing is the height of laziness and irresponsibility because he was involved in this TEST of your new pistol. If he saw you doing something that he objected to, he should have stopped you immediately, and explained to you how to properly test your new pistol.

 

[circuitbear]

So update and resolution of the issue.


Upon arrival to pick up the firearm, I opened the box and as was recommended the most, and easiest to test, I tried being more firm on racking the slide.



Pulling to the point it would "stick" at previously, I continued yanking backwards with, honestly, not much more force but I wasn't stopping in fear of breaking it this time.


The slide popped past the point of resistance and the snapcap came out no problem.


Afterwards, I dry fired one time without the snapcap to confirm everything was okay and was satisfied(to the best of my knowledge) it was.


Looking at the snapcap, there was some warping on the back. I mentioned what was explained in this thread to the FFL and he said he would be throwing away some of his older snapcaps and was receptive to idea that the older worn snapcaps could have caused it.(And assuming I understood this thread correctly).


Thank you all for your help. I will have to find a class soon on how to properly use and maintain it, but may have to be online due to covid(hopefully I can find one taking proper precautions)

 

[Rastoff]

Seems like you got it figured out.

Let me add one thing, you aren't going to break your gun. Unless you do something completely strange, like use it as a hammer, you can't break it.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Looking at the snapcap, there was some warping on the back. I mentioned what was explained in this thread to the FFL and he said he would be throwing away some of his older snapcaps and was receptive to idea that the older worn snapcaps could have caused it.(And assuming I understood this thread correctly).

Just wanted to add that for those of us who use snap caps for dry fire practice, it's a good idea to inspect them regularly, especially if you do reloading/malfunction clearing drills. In my experience, case rims can get chewed up pretty good and are probably the first failure point.