Jesse James Schofield just sold...
- Thread starter outta_ammo
- Start date
Jim Younger’s gun
I found Jim Youngers gun. Taken from him from the sheriff leading the posse that hunted the Youngers down after the raid. They were shot up and done!
That just adds yet another Smith & Wesson 44 to the first gangs load of weapons!
Literally every gang member of the first James Gang that was at the Northfield raid and was killed or captured carried on them a Smith & Wesson 44! That’s very bias of them but on a Smith & Wesson forum? It’s awesome!
Murph
I found Jim Youngers gun. Taken from him from the sheriff leading the posse that hunted the Youngers down after the raid. They were shot up and done!
That just adds yet another Smith & Wesson 44 to the first gangs load of weapons!
Literally every gang member of the first James Gang that was at the Northfield raid and was killed or captured carried on them a Smith & Wesson 44! That’s very bias of them but on a Smith & Wesson forum? It’s awesome!
Murph
Attachments
Jesse James Jr.
Just an update to the research.
I'm about finished with Northfield...I did receive an email from the Historical Society so I'll find out more from them soon.
However, I'm back on the Second gang (post 1878) since the odds are very low that the first gang ever used a Schofield.
When we refer to a book written and published in 1899 by the son of Jesse James? Jesse James Jr.? He wrote that his father...keep in mind that he was actually 6 years old when his father was killed.
He claims that his father always wore two revolvers. A Colt's 45 and a Smith & Wesson Schofield 45. He also claims that his father wore 3 cartridge belts anytime he left the house to go into town. In addition to that load of guns and ammo, he claims that his father would stuff a Winchester rifle in an oversized umbrella. That's one I've never heard before.
From his book in his own writing he claimed that after his father's death that most of the guns were sold except for the revolvers. One of which they gave to T.T. Crittenden Jr for being such a good friend...the other revolver he claimed that "Uncle Frank" had. He even claims that they sold their dog for $15.
So, my question is with all the guns sold, given away, or with "Uncle Frank" ? Basically all the guns were gone after his father's death. Where exactly did the guns on the 1921 display board come from?
I'm also working on newspaper research right after his death that confirms his "revolvers" were confiscated by the Police. I'm going to see if the newspapers determine where they ended up or perhaps more details as to identifying them. One was a Colt for sure. Multiple sources confirm it.
It's the Schofield that is allusive.
Murph
Just an update to the research.
I'm about finished with Northfield...I did receive an email from the Historical Society so I'll find out more from them soon.
However, I'm back on the Second gang (post 1878) since the odds are very low that the first gang ever used a Schofield.
When we refer to a book written and published in 1899 by the son of Jesse James? Jesse James Jr.? He wrote that his father...keep in mind that he was actually 6 years old when his father was killed.
He claims that his father always wore two revolvers. A Colt's 45 and a Smith & Wesson Schofield 45. He also claims that his father wore 3 cartridge belts anytime he left the house to go into town. In addition to that load of guns and ammo, he claims that his father would stuff a Winchester rifle in an oversized umbrella. That's one I've never heard before.
From his book in his own writing he claimed that after his father's death that most of the guns were sold except for the revolvers. One of which they gave to T.T. Crittenden Jr for being such a good friend...the other revolver he claimed that "Uncle Frank" had. He even claims that they sold their dog for $15.
So, my question is with all the guns sold, given away, or with "Uncle Frank" ? Basically all the guns were gone after his father's death. Where exactly did the guns on the 1921 display board come from?
I'm also working on newspaper research right after his death that confirms his "revolvers" were confiscated by the Police. I'm going to see if the newspapers determine where they ended up or perhaps more details as to identifying them. One was a Colt for sure. Multiple sources confirm it.
It's the Schofield that is allusive.
Murph
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opoefc
US Veteran
Interesting thread, so here's some S&W Trivia relating to the .45 Schofield cartridge: In the July 24, 1897 , issue of "Forest and Stream, Rod and Gun" magazine, there is ad by UMC featuring a target fired at the North London Rifle Club (Bisley), England, by Mr. Walter Winans. It shows 9 rounds, all in the black bullseye, at 20 yrs, with .45 Schofield cartridges. No mention of what model S&W was used, however I believe it was a New Model #3 Target, as I had that gun in my collection in the past which lettered as shipped to Mr. Winans in .45 Schofield caliber. Mr. Winans may have done this as a publicity stunt for his friend, Marcus Hartley, who owned UMC Cartridge Co. Why 9 rounds from a six shot revolver, who knows ! Ed
Update
I’m piecing newspaper articles together right after his death. If you look beyond a week after his death the yarns start building huge. It’s absolutely amazing how much the early media can juice up a dirigible, Good Year blimp sized Yarn!
Anyway, I’m gathering early info. Will post what I’ve found soon.
Just have to post this latest article that claims that the Government officials were trying to confiscate Jesse James Guns but that the Sheriff was not in agreement. He believed that they should be returned to the Widow! ( Good for him! For fighting greedy politicians)
Also, the article mentions that the guns were valued at $500.!!!
That’s a lot of money in 1882! You could easily
Have purchased a small farm for that price. Let’s put our thinking caps on here for a minute. Soon after Jesse James was murdered the family had an auction. In that auction they sold whatever they could get money for. They even sold the family dog for $15.
How many members believe that they would have kept $500 worth of guns? Hmmm. Let me think here... Jesse’s Guns or a Farm bought and paid for? Two small children to feed? No husband? Come on now? Common sense dictates that the guns were sold!
Murph
I’m piecing newspaper articles together right after his death. If you look beyond a week after his death the yarns start building huge. It’s absolutely amazing how much the early media can juice up a dirigible, Good Year blimp sized Yarn!
Anyway, I’m gathering early info. Will post what I’ve found soon.
Just have to post this latest article that claims that the Government officials were trying to confiscate Jesse James Guns but that the Sheriff was not in agreement. He believed that they should be returned to the Widow! ( Good for him! For fighting greedy politicians)
Also, the article mentions that the guns were valued at $500.!!!
That’s a lot of money in 1882! You could easily
Have purchased a small farm for that price. Let’s put our thinking caps on here for a minute. Soon after Jesse James was murdered the family had an auction. In that auction they sold whatever they could get money for. They even sold the family dog for $15.
How many members believe that they would have kept $500 worth of guns? Hmmm. Let me think here... Jesse’s Guns or a Farm bought and paid for? Two small children to feed? No husband? Come on now? Common sense dictates that the guns were sold!
Murph
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Court Records
I now have access to my old James Gang notes. Just added my latest research material to it but most of what I have researched recently I actually already have in my old notes from 2004.
This is from Actual court records and testimony from gang members and people who knew and saw The James Gang Members. From their very last recorded robbery in September of 1881. Just 6 months before Jesse James death.
Jesse James carried a Colt’s 45 revolver and a 44 SMITH & WESSON Along with a shotgun with a belt carrying about 30 rounds.
Frank James carried a pair of 44 Remington revolvers, 2 cartridge belts and a Winchester rifle.
There is more complete testimony as to what every gang member carried on them at the last robbery! All very clearly recorded in court documents from actual gang members who and under oath testified exactly what each member had! Why exactly would they lie? It doesn’t get better than that.
NO SCHOFIELDS!!!!
Game Over!
Murph
I now have access to my old James Gang notes. Just added my latest research material to it but most of what I have researched recently I actually already have in my old notes from 2004.
This is from Actual court records and testimony from gang members and people who knew and saw The James Gang Members. From their very last recorded robbery in September of 1881. Just 6 months before Jesse James death.
Jesse James carried a Colt’s 45 revolver and a 44 SMITH & WESSON Along with a shotgun with a belt carrying about 30 rounds.
Frank James carried a pair of 44 Remington revolvers, 2 cartridge belts and a Winchester rifle.
There is more complete testimony as to what every gang member carried on them at the last robbery! All very clearly recorded in court documents from actual gang members who and under oath testified exactly what each member had! Why exactly would they lie? It doesn’t get better than that.
NO SCHOFIELDS!!!!
Game Over!
Murph
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TheHobbyist
Member
If everything is all correct, in my opinion the buyer got a bargain. If properly marketed with international bidders and time, I would expect it to go for an awful lot more. You are buying history in this case.
Newspaper references
This is my final input on this subject.
I've concluded the Newspaper research and found only more information that supports that Jesse James carried a Colt 45 and a 44 Smith and Wesson revolver. The guns were in fact confiscated by local authorities and returned to the widow on April 21, 1882.
They were then sold at auction soon thereafter to support the family who were literally broke. The house they were occupying was a rental.
Bob Ford's sworn statement was actually performed in court and under oath in front of the justice of the peace who also witnessed his testimony that he used a Colt 45 to murder Jesse James.
The "SOLE SOURCE" of the Schofield revolver began with the publishing of the Jesse James Jr book in 1899 and subsequent stories, newspaper articles, and "Tall embellished Tales" that all post date this book's writing further bolstering the Schofield yarn.
Any subsequent stories of Schofield revolvers being picked up off the ground at robbery sites, Blood under grips, signed affidavits of legitimate Schofield s is unfounded. Jesse's signature under grips is laughable to me personally from my " Very lengthy and thorough Research". ZERO documented evidence found from period research supports these claims.
Murph
This is my final input on this subject.
I've concluded the Newspaper research and found only more information that supports that Jesse James carried a Colt 45 and a 44 Smith and Wesson revolver. The guns were in fact confiscated by local authorities and returned to the widow on April 21, 1882.
They were then sold at auction soon thereafter to support the family who were literally broke. The house they were occupying was a rental.
Bob Ford's sworn statement was actually performed in court and under oath in front of the justice of the peace who also witnessed his testimony that he used a Colt 45 to murder Jesse James.
The "SOLE SOURCE" of the Schofield revolver began with the publishing of the Jesse James Jr book in 1899 and subsequent stories, newspaper articles, and "Tall embellished Tales" that all post date this book's writing further bolstering the Schofield yarn.
Any subsequent stories of Schofield revolvers being picked up off the ground at robbery sites, Blood under grips, signed affidavits of legitimate Schofield s is unfounded. Jesse's signature under grips is laughable to me personally from my " Very lengthy and thorough Research". ZERO documented evidence found from period research supports these claims.
Murph
Ray
Member
Here are some pics from Mr. Winans book - The Modern Pistol and How to Shoot it 1919 edition.
There are 20 target pics and others firearms he used then .If you wish I can post them all.The one refered to is shown, albeit the date is wrong.
Regards, Ray
Attachments
Tough to argue with this summary, Caveat emptor. Have heard numerous stories of auction houses selling guns that were fakes, misrepresented. Maybe the $140K buyer just has so much money that $140K isn't a big deal.
westernswede
Member
It's back! The Schofield is on the market again. Coming to auction soon. You guys can have another chance at it. Only a year off the market. Good luck.
