John kennedy assassination question

[Wyatt Burp]

Second Secret Service Car behind Kennedy limo, Agent holding newly acquired M16,,,,,This is the smoking gun as per Mortal Error.

The original book and reinvestigation of books facts make this theory most believable.
I think nothing ever became of that lawsuit because agent involved would have had to testify. The agent never responded to the the authors request to confirm or deny. Many attempts were made with no response. I think if I was being questioned of my involvement in this I would have responded.
That book is very good.

As Sherlock Holmes once said,,,,. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

In that photo how could that guy have accidentally shot JFK without shooting through the windshield? If he was standing up on the seat and shot over the windshield is there a picture of it? And how did all those other guys in the car not hear the shot in that very car just inches or feet from their ears but did hear Oswald's shots? Or did they ALL get together and agree on a lie? I can't believe there's an entire book on this.

 

[jtcarm]

Sadly, there's a lot we probably will never know regarding the whole Kennedy family. It certainly never was Camelot as portrayed....

Chappaquiddick, for example.

Now there was a real conspiracy and cover up.

 

[rlongclu]

The aptly titled "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi puts all of the conspiracy nonsense to rest. It is a very comprehensive rational look at the entire case from top to bottom. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Except when in Bill Clinton's hands!

 

[jtcarm]

Three shots in 8 seconds? Or whatever time period. Think of it this way. Oswald was tracking his target through the scope. Time hadn't started yet. The first shot is at Time = 0. The next two shots are in the time period. Not that difficult.

My problem is who the Secret Service chose for the autopsy. Instead of assigning Forensic Pathologists for the autopsy, they chose three Clinical Pathologists. Two had never seen a bullet wound in their entire career, and one had treated some wounds during the Korean War. The lead Clinical Pathologist specialized in the analysis of urine. He had been jokingly referred to as a Pissologist. If they had to testify in court on a homicide case, they would never had survived the voir dire.

Why did Secret Service choose three such unqualified Clinical Pathologists instead of qualified Forensic Pathologists? Ulterior motive or just plain stupidity?

Probably because no one imagined the President could get shot, much less killed.

Besides, when someone's cranial cavity is described as "evacuated", I don't think cause of death is a mystery.

 

[GaryS]

Ruby was well known as a "friend" of the Dallas PD and had pretty much free access anywhere in HQ.

I don't think there was any great conspiracy and Ruby was just infuriated that Oswald had killed JFK.

 

[rwsmith]

I think it was...

What has always puzzled me is the that shot that killed Kennedy took off some of the back of his head. Would that be consistent with the entrance wound from a fmj, or the result of a frontal hit with an expanding bullet?

I've always suspected the latter.

I think it was hydrostatic shot that is about the same as shooting a jug full of water with a rifle, except the skull is thicker. Looking at the Zapruder film a huge spray from the front of his head seems to be the first frame, which obscures Jackie's face, then the second frame shows a shower that looks like it's going in every direction like his head exploded.

When I first saw the film I had the impression that a chunk blew out the side of his head.

The autopsy photos show the right top of his head was blown off, which would be consistent with my first impression of the movie. The bullet seemed to exit on top of his forehead over the right eye because his face is not damaged at all. That tells me the final shot came from Oswald.

The first shot that that went through where the neck attaches seems to have passed right through like an FMJ, and since on the second shot the FMJ was to the brain contained within the skull, it exploded and the bullet continued forward. I wonder where it ended up?

The SKETCHES show a big hole in the back of his head. Either somebody is a lousy artist or trying to give another impression. There are some better sketches by a medical artist that seem to show the real story.

Anyway, this tells me that it entered the back of his head on the upper right, exited at his hair line, then the shock blew a palm sized hole in the side of the head toward the rear. It didn't need to be a dead center shot because the pictures I looked at it tore up his brain really bad.


Of course pictures can be doctored, too.

 

[the ringo kid]

I believe it's all out there for you to look at if you go to the National Archives and bother to leaf through it.

But apparently there was simply nothing in there that even justified a blog entry, let alone any "revelations".

Which brings us back to "Told you so."

I don't know if you know what I meant or not? This was the info they claimed was to be declassified that was going to give us more detail into the assassination? and likely heavily redacted which means-we aint getting nuttin new.

We were led to believe that they were going to tell us info that would also tell us who killed Jimmy Hoffa and under what building his remains are located-kinda thing.

 

[Steve912]

In that photo how could that guy have accidentally shot JFK without shooting through the windshield? If he was standing up on the seat and shot over the windshield is there a picture of it? And how did all those other guys in the car not hear the shot in that very car just inches or feet from their ears but did hear Oswald's shots? Or did they ALL get together and agree on a lie? I can't believe there's an entire book on this.

Pic looks like a tool photochop--no taper on the handguards--fakaroony!

 

[loknload]

Wyatt Burp,,,

In that photo how could that guy have accidentally shot JFK without shooting through the windshield? If he was standing up on the seat and shot over the windshield is there a picture of it? And how did all those other guys in the car not hear the shot in that very car just inches or feet from their ears but did hear Oswald's shots? Or did they ALL get together and agree on a lie? I can't believe there's an entire book on this.

This gentlemen did a complete investigation using the Warren Commision Report as a blueprint. A gunsmith / ballistics expert also assisted. The gun Smith was I believe the only person that was able to duplicate Oswald's shots. The bullet from the carcano did not match up to the entrance wound on Kennedy's head but one from an M16 did. They determined that when Oswald shot none of his bullets hit the president or were the mortal shot to kill Kennedy,but through the excitement of the moment the SS agent sitting on the trunk area of the second car was thrown forward when the car lurched and he swept the rifle on the limo thus also accidentally firing the fatal round. They never said Oswald was not there he just didn't fire the fatal bullet. They never outright went after the agent to blame or place guilt but just to admit to an accidental discharge that did occur accidentally killing the president.
The other agents did in fact cover this up under orders because they did not want the people to know or at the time Russia and Cuba to know that Kennedy's own detail killed him. When the senior agent reported this originally to his superiors and to Bobby Kennedy if I remember, originally they were told that there had been an accident and the president was shot. The other agents when questioned about this or this agent with the rifle would never discuss it, and over time stories even changed.
It is a very interesting book and the facts are there, it is very logical.
It's been a while since I read it though so some of my facts here are not in exact detail.
It did convince me though! You have to read the book, even another Australian detective re-investigated the original book and did come to the same conclusions.

 

[rockquarry]

For those interested in reading factual material related to all this, there's a well written and well-documented book by Dale K. Myers that was published about twenty years ago, "With Malice, Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murder of Officer J.D.Tippit".

It contains many photographs that aren't the usual "tired" photos seen elsewhere. This book will have no appeal to the eccentric theorists, but for someone wanting to learn, it's worth looking at.

 

[ridgewalker]

Did they mention what happened to the Secret Service agent who allegedly fired the fatal shot? I mean if he continued with a long career with POTUS duty then that whole theory is trash. He would have definitely been finished immediately even if it was an accident. Even if they covered it up, he wouldn't be allowed any where near any VIP ever again. Anyone who read this book have any info?

 

[rwsmith]

He was very well known...

If I remember correctly Jack Ruby was something of a police freak and spent a lot of time hanging around there. His presence in the building would not have been unusual. His presence at that particular place and time when a high-profile prisoner was being transferred was a bit problematic (obviously). I am not a big-time conspiracy freak but there was sure a lot of odd stuff that came together at that point in time. I should point out that I am old enough I remember pretty well when this happened, I was 14 at the time.

A lot of people knew Ruby and saw him often. He at in local eateries. It's very possible he may have supplied some higher ups with a 'good time' sometimes probably just for 'favors'.

 

[loknload]

ridge walker,,,,

Did they mention what happened to the Secret Service agent who allegedly fired the fatal shot? I mean if he continued with a long career with POTUS duty then that whole theory is trash. He would have definitely been finished immediately even if it was an accident. Even if they covered it up, he wouldn't be allowed any where near any VIP ever again. Anyone who read this book have any info?
______

If I remember correctly he was taken off of the Presidential detail and given a corner office somewhere to go off into obscurity. I believe he did retire from the service.

 

[armenius]

I love it every time something like this comes up.People will believe what they want, but there are too many unexplained facts.A little research will entertain you for years to come.Just consider the following.
Oswald while in high school was in the Civil Air Patrol with Barry Seal, which was mentored by David Ferrie.David Ferrie was involved with CIA and Bay of Pigs.Oswald was in N.O. before Dallas. The DA Garrison was trying to show Ferrie and a character Shaw were involved in the plot to kill Kennedy.Some,including Barry Seal's wife said he was in Dallas the day of the Assassination and shortly after departed with two unidentifiable males.
Look up and read about these characters and don't be surprised what you think of next!

 

[ancient-one]

crazyphil should be ashamed for showing the Klein's catalog and reminding us of gun prices back then. BAD!

 

[e3mrk]

Conspiracy Theory Time.
We all know the Kennedy's made their money from bootlegging during prohibition and Joe made a lot of so called Mob connections at that time.The story goes that Joe made a deal with the Mob to get Jack elected and then Jack would pretty much turn a blind eye as to what they were doing.Well it didnt work the way it was supposed to and Jack double crossed them by bringing Bobby in to go after organized crime,In comes Oswald who is set up to make the hit and after he shoots Kennedy Jack Ruby who is known to have Mob ties is ordered to silence Oswald so He cant tell what he knows.Jack Ruby agreed to kill Oswald because he had lung cancer and knew he didn't have long to live and made a deal that his family would be taken care of after he shoots Oswald. It's a pretty good theory but most likely not true.
But the biggest question I have is id Kennedy was shot from behind why was all the damage in the back of his head and not the front? exit wounds leave a nasty hole. And why did they decide not to release all of the report at the last minute when the time limit was up? Lots of unanswered questions. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[jtcarm]

It was a bear on the grassy knoll.

None of the SS agents had a bear gun and were powerless to stop it.

 

[LSWC]

more Kennedy stuff

Met two nice ladies authors at a LGS. They spent over five years poking around and doing in person interviews for the purpose of writing a book on this event. It's an interesting collection of stories from people that had tales to tell. Pics of the book attached, along with another shot (no pun intended) of the SS guy with the AR and another pic not usually seen - a large bullet ding in the chrome strip above the wind shield on the limo.

Also found out recently that a doctor in Amarillo has been speaking about his experience - he says he was grabbed by the SS at Parkland and taken to the ER just after the president was admitted. He was interviewed by gov't agents thereafter about the tracheotomy incision and told them it was about half an inch. On a later phone interview, when he would not change his story to match the photo evidence of the procedure, and when the agent finally got him to agree that he had seen the incision (without reference to size), the agent simply said "Thank you" and hung up. The doctor was never questioned again.

This whole thing makes me itch. We'll probably never hear the truth.

 

[ChuckS1]

Wow, this thread is really interesting. Two things I learned in the Army apply here. First, never believe the initial reports. Second, the simplest explanation is probably correct.

 

[BB57]

In that photo how could that guy have accidentally shot JFK without shooting through the windshield? If he was standing up on the seat and shot over the windshield is there a picture of it? And how did all those other guys in the car not hear the shot in that very car just inches or feet from their ears but did hear Oswald's shots? Or did they ALL get together and agree on a lie? I can't believe there's an entire book on this.

You should read it and take notes.

I'm a born skeptic and make my living based on critical thinking. This theory is the only one that explains all the otherwise inconsistent and or in explainable evidence. Just for starters:

- It explains the otherwise unexplainable spacing of the shots;
- it explains the observed wounds (he does a great job of ballistic analysis);
- it explains the secret services' bizarre hijacking of the body in Dallas before an autopsy could be performed (to prevent the discovery that he was hit by a .223 round that fragmented;
- it explains the interference with, and alteration of the actual autopsy and report (to prevent the same conclusion that it was not a 6.5 Carcano round that caused the head wound);
- it explains missing documentation and brain (i.e. no way to confirm the .223 round hit Kennedy through metallurgical analysis of the fragments);
- it eliminates the need for the "magic bullet" to account for all the wounds to Kennedy and Connelly;
- it explains witness reports that at least one shot did not come from the book depository; and
- more recently, it explains why the government is still keeping many of the documents sealed.

There at e a lot more details, but what is most convincing about the theory is that there is no fact in evidence that it does not explain, which makes it the strongest theory by far. The theory is also parsimonious - it does not require a complex series of plot twists to happen - just an accident and logical, bureaucratic/political motivated actions that follow.

It's also significant that he was stone walled when he brought his theory forward, as it would undo what amounts to a major cover up about what really happened.

No one wants to admit that the president was shot by a secret service agent grabbing an AR-15 and then falling backward off the seat as the car began to accelerate, even if the wound at the base of his neck inflicted by Oswald would have probably been fatal anyway. No one wants a president to get shot by accident.