JUST TESTED THE "NEW" REMINGTON HTP FBI LOAD VS THE OLD ONE

[Groo01]

Groo here
This might be a reason to shoot "mid-range"357s from a snub.
You might get FBI load specs.

 

[V0OBWxZS16]

I imagine that the reason for the denim layer test is because so many people now days wear Denim of some sort and is a popular "constant" to shoot through for bullet testing. If one was looking for a common dress material to fit the bill, what is more common than Denim??

"Despite having been discussed multiple times over the past two decades, there still appears to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the four-layer heavy denim cloth test.

The four layer denim test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing--it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand. FWIW, a senior engineer at a very respected ammunition manufacturer that supplies ammunition to many of the largest LE agencies in the Nation has commented that bullets that do well in 4 layer denim testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents.

For additional information, you may wish to review Duncan MacPherson's seminal article on the topic: "Improved Handgun Ammunition" published in the old journal of the International Wound Ballistics Association, Wound Ballistics Review, Volume 3, Number 3, 1998; pp. 12-21."
- DocGKR

 

[chief38]

"Despite having been discussed multiple times over the past two decades, there still appears to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the four-layer heavy denim cloth test.

The four layer denim test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing--it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand. FWIW, a senior engineer at a very respected ammunition manufacturer that supplies ammunition to many of the largest LE agencies in the Nation has commented that bullets that do well in 4 layer denim testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents.

For additional information, you may wish to review Duncan MacPherson's seminal article on the topic: "Improved Handgun Ammunition" published in the old journal of the International Wound Ballistics Association, Wound Ballistics Review, Volume 3, Number 3, 1998; pp. 12-21."
- DocGKR

Well at least they chose a product that is worn my most these days........

 

[Naphtali]

Let's disregard the "four layers of 16 ounce denim," substitute "winter clothing," and go from that perspective.

 

[CoMF]

Let's disregard the "four layers of 16 ounce denim," substitute "winter clothing," and go from that perspective.

The older Remington FBI load performs fine in the FBI "heavy clothing" test, from a 3" barrel at least.

I forget the average recorded velocities, but I believe they were in the mid to upper 800 FPS range.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I think that Remington is pushing its new ammo over the lead SD ammo.
I went to two sites and both had six SD loading .....
only one was the lead FBI loading, all the others had a jacket.

Lead may be getting phased out...?

The tree huggers and bird watchers are gaining on us.

 

[Naphtali]

On 03 January 2016 I wrote to Buffalo Bore about their enhanced "FBI Load." While I believe information I requested to be important for me to strongly consider buying that ammunition for EDC, apparently Buffalo Bore does not. OR answers present a less than favorable perspective on the ammunition. There has been no reply.
*************
Dear Sirs:

I shoot Remington's +P 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP "FBI Load" in my S&W 640-1 (357 Magnum, 2.125-inch barrel). I was recently informed of your SKU: 20A/20 Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. - G.C. ammunition.

At 25 yards how closely will your enhanced FBI Load's point of impact correspond with my Remington FBI Load while I use the same point of aim?
***
Your blurb on your FBI Load describes extreme expansion with about 14 inches of penetration in human flesh.

- What are penetration-expansion results when "winter clothing" fronts the flesh?

- What are penetration-expansion results when conventional clothing plus a typical "cheap" room-to-room door fronts the flesh?
***
Please describe how effectively your FBI Load is sealed. Upon request or special order, may I obtain your FBI Load in nickel plated brass rather than unplated?

 

[caleb4387]

Back in the 1970's, the Winchester box had the letters MS on it. I had to call Winchester in East Alton, IL to learn what they meant. It was Maximum Service. At the time, I think they listed the ammo at 1090 FPS.

It had a good street rep.

I avoid ALL Remington products now, as they have poor QC reps. I've kept an M-870, but it was bought about 10 years ago. I'm really disappointed in how Remington handled the dangerous trigger issue on M-700 and earlier rifles, too. That was a real black eye for the firearms industry, and the media has exploited it.

I load Speer Gold Dot 125 grain .38 in four - inch and longer barrels and their 135 grain GD in snub and three-inch barrels. I have some 158 grain lead SWC-HP Plus P from Federal, load No. 38G, that is probably 15 years old. I'd load that if penetration was a real need, as on larger animals. Same for where thick winter coats might be a factor in shooting someone.

I'm eager to learn more about Buffalo Bore, but it costs a LOT and not all dealers stock it. What I've seen on the Net suggests that their ammo is very hot but safe. That heavy Plus P round should be a good defense load and capable of taking most smaller animals like raccoons and even deer. It's better than the old .38-44 round. I'm impressed, but has anyone here shot any live animals or people with it?

Underwood makes the same thing a beat cheaper

 

[caleb4387]

I found a box of winchester fbi loads in a pawn shop that were at least 20 years old. I wish i hadnt shot them all up. Thry were definetly hotter than;any of the remington loads ive shot. Havent tried the newer winchester loads yet

 

[TeaDub]

An excellent thread. Thanks for all the information.

I was on the verge of ordering a handful of boxes of the new HTP rounds when I saw this information. My carry revolvers are all 2" and I just don't know if the new stuff is what I am looking for.

I had been carrying the Golden Saber load. Wanting to step up the weight a bit, I finally settled on the 135 grain, short barrel Gold Dot. That load seems to have a good track record and should be available for some time to come. The drawback is price. At 60ish cents per round, I can't practice with it as much as I'd like. The price of "progress" I guess.

 

[Arik]

On 03 January 2016 I wrote to Buffalo Bore about their enhanced "FBI Load." While I believe information I requested to be important for me to strongly consider buying that ammunition for EDC, apparently Buffalo Bore does not. OR answers present a less than favorable perspective on the ammunition. There has been no reply.
*************
Dear Sirs:

I shoot Remington's +P 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP "FBI Load" in my S&W 640-1 (357 Magnum, 2.125-inch barrel). I was recently informed of your SKU: 20A/20 Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. - G.C. ammunition.

At 25 yards how closely will your enhanced FBI Load's point of impact correspond with my Remington FBI Load while I use the same point of aim?
***
Your blurb on your FBI Load describes extreme expansion with about 14 inches of penetration in human flesh.

- What are penetration-expansion results when "winter clothing" fronts the flesh?

- What are penetration-expansion results when conventional clothing plus a typical "cheap" room-to-room door fronts the flesh?
***
Please describe how effectively your FBI Load is sealed. Upon request or special order, may I obtain your FBI Load in nickel plated brass rather than unplated?

How would they know how close their ammo corresponds to Remington? And in your gun?

What if it was typical clothing and a cheap room to room door but on the other end was an home office with typical home office stuff on the desk? What's the expansion when the bullet only passes through a boating world magazine and a pencil?

It's commercial ammo not surplus ment to be stored for 100 years

 

[CoMF]

At 60ish cents per round, I can't practice with [Speer GDSB] as much as I'd like. The price of "progress" I guess.

Speer does make a 135 gr. TMJ practice round; it's just not easily found.

Federal American Eagle 130 gr. FMJ is a reasonably close second choice for practice.

 

[Pigirondan]

I too love this old thread. As an aside, because of the age of some of my S&W revolvers, the first six are the Buffalo Bore .38 Special 150 grain wadcutters and the speed loaders are filled with standard pressure Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP. I do not feel that I'm under gunned at all. YMMV

PS., I've found that the Grizzly 158 grain LSWC "factory load" compares favorably with my standard handloads/reloads. (158 grain LSWC over 5 grains of Unique)

 

[GoDevil Man]

Zombie thread back to life! Chrono'd some hand loads a trusted friend rolled for me today. Tested some factory stuff too. The Remington HTP FBI load averaged 895 fps from my 4 inch 65-3. Chronometer about 15 feet down range. By comparison, American Eagle 357 mag 158 grain JSP measured 1271 fps from my 6 inch 27-2, and 1249.2 from the 65. Pretty happy with the well used bedside 65!

 

[JayFramer]

Zombie thread back to life! Chrono'd some hand loads a trusted friend rolled for me today. Tested some factory stuff too. The Remington HTP FBI load averaged 895 fps from my 4 inch 65-3. Chronometer about 15 feet down range. By comparison, American Eagle 357 mag 158 grain JSP measured 1271 fps from my 6 inch 27-2, and 1249.2 from the 65. Pretty happy with the well used bedside 65!

Thank you, Remington, for ruining the FBI load. Not even 900 FPS... pathetic.

 

[Texas Star]

Thank you, Remington, for ruining the FBI load. Not even 900 FPS... pathetic.

Well, keep in mind the distance from the muzzle to the chrono. That missing 5 FPS is probably lost there.

I doubt that a burglar will notice whether he's hit by a bullet going 895 FPS or one at 900 FPS. And a different gun or chronograph might add 5 or more FPS and that'll vary from one ammo lot to another.

Finally, I think "listed" velocity is 890 FPS from a four-inch vented barrel. ?? What have they lost?