K frame vs J frame trigger pull

[arp32]

Sorry if this has been answered before, I tried a search but got a lot of extraneous results...

Can anyone describe the differences between DA trigger pulls on K and J frames? I have a police trade in 64-5 (K frame 38) that I would guess is in the 6-8 pound range, which is consistent the whole way with two audible clicks. My groups sometimes touch at 25 feet, and I wouldn't say I'm more than an average shot.

I just sold a 5906 where the DA trigger pull was so heavy I could not get the first shot anywhere near where I was aiming past 25 feet. Consistency didn't matter since it was easily 12-14 lbs... After a thousand dry fires or so my finger was stronger, but I still hated it. Loved the feel of the gun, but had to sell it.

Where do J frames fall as far as DA trigger weight and smoothness? I'm thinking about a 637 or 642 as my next purchase but don't want to have to start doing fingertip pull-ups before trips to the range. Guess I got spoiled by my 1911.

Thanks!

 

[scooter123]

I would expect the trigger pull on your model 64 ranges between 8 and 9 lbs. if you actually measure it. I cannot imagine any police armorer going any lighter than this due to concerns about ignition reliability. That said a well tuned trigger at 9 lbs. is very shootable and it's smoothness can deceive one into thinking it's lighter.

As for the J frames, IMO it's got one strike against it by design. That is a coil spring sliding on a strut will always produce some friction between the strut and the springs. Leaf springs may seem a bit dated but they don't rub against anything during the travel, so IMO you can only come close to total elmination of staginess with a leaf spring.

Another thing working against the J frames is that they are intended to be purely defensive revolvers, so ignition reliability is paramount over anything else. The consensus I've picked up is that from the factory you can expect the DA trigger pull to range between 10.5 and 13 lbs. This will feel rather heavy unless you start engaging in those fingertip pullups.

However, I have a Sig P239 with a measured 10.5 DA trigger pull and odd as it seems I usually shoot it more precisely in double action slow fire than I do in single action slow fire. I suspect it's because that heavy DA trigger "seats" the gun in my had a bit more firmly. It could also be because it's so much harder to predict the break that I'm not anticipating the shot. What I do know is that when I score a near perfect hit on the center X in the target it's almost always done in double action. Point is that there are some "hidden" benefits to a heavy DA trigger in shooting a smaller handgun.

Now, if you don't want to deal with the heavy factory trigger there are options that can help with it. Apex Tactical is currently offering an "improved reliability" firing pin kit for the newer J frames. In addition they have been doing extensive testing on tuning the J frames for a lighter trigger. If I remember correctly they have achieved total reliability with a DA trigger at 8 3/4 lbs., however it's been a few months since I glanced at Flork's report, so don't take that as gospel. IMO your best option is to take that new gun and ship it to Apex Tactical, you'll do without it for a month or two but you'll get back a revolver that has been tuned on by pro's who really know what they are doing with these guns.

If that doesn't work for you, get their ignition kit, a 13 or 14 lbs rebound spring, and spend a bit of time on You Tube watching the videos available on tuning the J frames. I would also suggest you get some diamond lapping paste so you can put a mirror polish on the corners of the spring strut where the coils will rub on the strut. BTW, polishing the strut is my idea and I really don't know how well that would work, however I suspect in this area smoother is better.

 

[arp32]

Thanks for the great advice! My 64 is so worn in I think it would be hard to beat, but if I can replace a few springs in a J frame and have the trigger weight be within 20-30% of it I'd be happy. Glad to hear it's possible.

 

[PALADIN85020]

You can't expect as nice a trigger pull on the J-frames as you can on the K or N frames. The geometry is different, giving you less leverage in the trigger/hammer system. By design, the hammer has to strike with equal or better force over a shorter arc. There is an immense variety of ammo out there, and S&W made sure that the hammer spring provides striking force enough to ignite almost anything. As a result, the trigger pull will be heavier than on the larger guns.

Nelson Ford, who is the ace S&W gunsmith in this area, said that lighter trigger pulls via spring altering on the J-frames will definitely affect reliability. A good smith can smooth up the pull so that it's even and glides well, but getting a lighter pull with reduced hammer spring power can and will be counterproductive. You just can't change physics. There are downsides to the J-frames in the interest of compactness. One of these, unfortunately, is a stiffer DA trigger pull. Learn to live with it, and practice.

John

 

[FloridaFlier]

The other factor working against J-frame triggers is their light weight. 10 pounds on a 36 ounce gun feels smooth. That same 10 pound trigger pull on a gun that weighs one pound seems much heavier than it is.

 

[arp32]

Picked up my 642-1 today. I was worried for nothing, this gun is awesome. Trigger pull is similar to the 64-5. Different geometry of course, but not noticeably heavier.

Couldn't be happier!

 

[shooter686]

My 642

trigger pull measures 11lbs. Its as smooth as silk, but heavy.

Shooter686

 

[What the]

In my experience with J-Frames the triggers are heavy, that as others noted is needed for reliable ignition, however that same weight can be made smoother which makes them feel much lighter.

Smith and Wesson can make them smoother or look around for a good gunsmith in your area. Pulling the triggers straight through without staging will help as well. It never hurts to pop the grips off and let a drop or two of oil fall onto the spring/strut assembly.

And as you already noted dry firing will improve your finger strength and it does seem to smooth things up a bit. Using a grip that fills your hand and using the first joint of your finger instead of the pad on your fingertip will give you much more control of the trigger.

You bought a very nice revolver and you two should have no problems warming up to each other. Happy shooting!!

 

[Stainz]

Ah, a happy ending - always good to read that!

In the heavy J-frame DA pull department, all mention thus far has been on cf revolvers - a rimfire is even worse! Of course, an Airweight .22 Mag - with it's Al cylinder topping a snubby off near 3/4 lb - is about the absolute worst DA pull of all S&W's - makes me think of my 1895 Nagant revolvers! Passed up some great bargains on a 351 as a result.

Re gunsmith work... S&W offers only an innards clean-up, ie, no hammer spring replacement due to reliability on rimfire J-frames - ~$85 inc overnite both ways from/to your address. They may still offer a cf J-frame trigger job, too. I'd go with them... they are intimately familiar with your S&W - and have parts, should they be needed. Also, the 'liability' in case of defensive use may be less, too, than for a revolver 'tricked' by a non-factory center. Just an opinion. My 642-2 is box-stock - with lots of plinking behind it to help break it in - and it has a good trigger for a DAO self-defense weapon.

Stainz

 

[arp32]

Shooter686, I should have held on to my 5906 long enough to measure it... If this J frame is anything close to 11 pounds, the 5906 must have been 20 on DA. I know it's subjective without a scale, but that trigger was HEAVY.

I've only dry-fired the new 642 a couple dozen times (picked it up at lunch yesterday), and it's pretty smooth from the factory. I pull straight through relatively fast and can't feel grit or much change in the weight. I really couldn't justify having it worked on - I think it's going to be a great shooter!