K38 Masterpiece - a little help?

[selmerfan]

So I'm looking for a nice, easy to load, cheap to shoot .38 Spec. revolver and have pretty much zeroed in on the K38 Masterpiece, Target Masterpiece, or Model 14 Target Masterpiece. I have a gentleman that has offered me a K38, 232xxx serial number in very good condition, all matching serials on ejector, cylinder, grips, hammer, etc. Standard hammer and standard trigger, standard grips, "thin barrel and thin rib". How much is a gun such as this worth? I could get it for $600 shipped to my FFL. Is that a decent price?
What does "thin barrel and thin rib" mean? I don't want a lightweight that's going to recoil a lot and I like good balance on my guns. Sorry for the newbie questions, but a man has to start somewhere! BTW, hardly my first firearm, but my first revolver and I cast and load for everything I shoot.

 

[DWalt]

K231,256 – K266,154...1955
This K38 (K232xxx) should be the heavy barrel version. The light barrel versions were somewhat earlier. I don't know why you were told it had a "thin" barrel and rib. The light-barrel heavy-barrel differences were done to keep the K22, K32, and K38 target revolvers all at nearly the same weight and balance. Less metal around .38 holes.

K38 = Masterpiece (NOT Target Masterpiece), and later, the Model 14 (usually 6" barrel)
K38, 4" barrel = Combat Masterpiece, and later, the Model 15

While there are a few other minor differences, the Model 14 and Model 15 (and their respective predecessors) differ only in barrel length.

Recoil should be no issue if you shoot full wadcutter target loads. They are preferred for paper punching. The old standard target handload, used for many, many years, is 2.7-3.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye and a 148 grain full wadcutter bullet.

 

[JP@AK]

While there are a few other minor differences, the Model 14 and Model 15 (and their respective predecessors) differ only in barrel length.

And the front sight. On the K-38 Masterpiece, the standard was a Patridge. On the Combat Masterpiece, it was the Baughman ramp.
I completely agree with DWalt. This revolver is several years too late to have the standard, tapered barrel and the narrow rib. I think the guy is just mistaken. Or else he supplied an incorrect serial number. The one you listed did not have the K at the beginning. All postwar K-38s (actually there is no other kind) had the K prefix.

And yes, if it is in decent condition, $600 is a good price.

 

[selmerfan]

Okay, my error - one too many x's. Here is the info on the gun, from the seller.

Serial K232xx indicates first year of production, 1948. Features 6 inch thin barrel, thin rib, standard stocks, standard trigger and hammer,36 oz loaded. Five screw obviously. Serial numbers match on frame, barrel, cylinder, grips, and extractor star. Overall condition is very good with some loss of blueing. Has a spot of pitting in the barrel. Still is extremely tight and accurate. I rescued this K38 off a boat in Florida and it has not been shot out, beat up, or otherwise wore out. It was used as a "boat gun" and not shot in competition till I got it. I have put 200 rounds through it. No box or accessories.

 

[JP@AK]

Serial numbers match on frame, barrel, cylinder, grips, and extractor star.

You know, when I first read your initial post, I noticed this, but later forgot about it. It would have been very unlikely (not to say, impossible) for a K-38 shipped in 1955 to have the serial number in all six locations (he didn't mention the rear edge of the yoke). S&W had stopped doing that by the mid-1950s. If I had recalled this, or read your post again, I would have questioned it. It confirms in my mind, together with the K followed by 5 digits, that this is a very early K-38 and probably does actually have the tapered barrel and narrow rib.
Nice find! At $600 do not hesitate. Buy it. The only thing that would make this nicer would be the gold box and vintage tools.
Be sure to show us pictures when you have it in hand.

 

[DCWilson]

I'll bet that's a single-line gun: It will say "MADE IN U.SA." on the frame in front of the sideplate, and that's all. Just a few thousand serial numbers higher, K-38s and K-22s began to be released with the familiar four-line address that includes the phrase MARCAS REGISTRADAS.

Collectors like the single-line Masterpieces in any caliber. I would say $600 is an OK price for what you describe, even with the barrel pitting you mention. Have you seen pictures? If the seller can't provide pictures of the defects he mentions, make sure you get a three day inspection as part of the deal.

Recoil will not be too heavy. The difference in total weight of the gun is only a couple of ounces between the tapered barrel and heavy barrel versions. My opinion is that the tapered barrel, narrow rib guns look better, but the heavy barrel models with the additional weight out front are just a bit easier to shoot accurately. That's probably a distinction without a difference, as a shooter can train himself to accommodate the qualities of a specific revolver.

 

[selmerfan]

I haven't seen pictures yet - he said he'll get them to me in the next few days. I like "unique" firearms that are functional and useful - such as my T/C Encore pistols, my great-grandfather's Stevens 44 1/2 which came from factory with .22LR barrel and I had a .30-40 Krag barrel made for last year. This would definitely fall into the somewhat eclectic category of my gun cabinet. Pending pictures, I'll be purchasing the gun and will keep ya'll updated with pics and targets. Now to hunt for a good wadcutter mold...

 

[selmerfan]

A few pics from the seller. Yes - I wish he would have take photos of the serial number, but he's a trusted member on another site, I'm sure he's being straight up with me on the serial and condition.

 

[nedlate]

We know the earlier guns are desirable but with the amount of finish problems on the left side of the barrel I think $600 is pushing the limit. I would want to be closer to $500. I"ll bet it is a nice shooter though!
Ed

 

[selmerfan]

Oh, don't worry. $600 was his asking price. I won't pay $600 - I have to haggle, right? And the finish gives me some "wiggle room".

 

[glowe]

Oh, don't worry. $600 was his asking price. I won't pay $600 - I have to haggle, right? And the finish gives me some "wiggle room".

Not sure the finish will give you much room. I think the pictures show a K38 that will clean up with a little polish and a good waxing. It has been awhile since I have seen a high percentage Masterpiece go for under that price at auction, so any savings with the deal will just sweeten the pot more. I have a picture of the difference between the K-38 barrel ribs from narrow to heavy. Not really much difference in weight, but I can feel it when in hand. Narrow rib K-38 is 36 oz and the heavy is 38 1/2 oz to match the K-22 weight.

 

[selmerfan]

I hope the finish will clean up a bit - when I get it I'll ask for advice on how to do that properly. I've never held a K-22 so I wouldn't know the difference.

 

[selmerfan]

I spoke with the seller on the phone today. Very kind retired LEO and he knows exactly what he has in hand, $600 shipped is his bottom price. As it turns out, last week a friend gave me 31 lbs of once fired 9mm brass along with two pounds of Bullseye. I sold the brass for $110 today, so I'll just take the $600 price because the brass was free. . I should have the gun in hand within two weeks and I'll see what can be done on the finish. He said he had only used a coarse cloth and some break free to try to clean up the finish. What more can I do without removing blueing? I have ideas, but want to hear yours.

 

[DWalt]

Assuming there is no corrosion damage, about all you can do is give the metal a thorough solvent wipedown (I use MEK and paper towels) to remove all grease and oil. Then I apply a few coats of Johnson's paste wax. Lots recommend a product called "Renaissance Wax." I know nothing about it, but I doubt it is any better than Johnson's. Some people use car waxes like Simoniz, or neutral shoe polish. Those are probably also OK.

If there is corrosion, you can try using some light oil with brass wool. Supermarkets often carry brass or copper wool as a product called "Chore Boy" used for cleaning pots and pans. But don't overdo it or you will damage surrounding bluing.

 

[rct269]

Bronze wool with CorrosionX-----will remove any/all corrosion-----will blend funky finish blemishes------will NOT remove bluing. Actually bronze wool and virtually any light oil will do the same, but CorrosionX makes the job a quick one---comparatively speaking. Bronze wool is available from Brownells. CorrosionX is available from CorrosionX----for sure---and maybe elsewhere.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[JP@AK]

Do you guys think bronze wool is better than copper wool? I've been using copper, thinking it is softer and easier on bluing. But I am willing to take advice.

Also, Kroil is an effective rust removal compound as well. It is available in aerosol and liquid.

 

[JP@AK]

I use MEK and paper towels

Boy, DWalt. I hope you are very careful with MEK. Effective, yes, but extremely poisonous, including the vapors. Please keep it off your skin and use it only in well-ventilated venues.
We can't afford to lose you prematurely!

 

[DWalt]

"Also, Kroil is an effective rust removal compound as well. It is available in aerosol and liquid."

Hoppe's #9 works pretty good as a rust remover also. I doubt whether if the wool is copper, brass, or bronze makes much difference. Some use wheat pennies to scrape rust, as they are bronze. Some say 0000 steel wool also works OK and doesn't hurt bliung if you are careful to not overdo it. I use Chore Boy, it works fine.

 

[JP@AK]

The first gun-cleaning lesson I ever got was from my father. I was maybe 8 or 9 at the time. He used Hoppe's #9. I've been using it ever since and I'm pushing 65.
I told my wife once that I needed Hoppe's #9 aftershave. She rolled her eyes!
Of course it was a joke because I haven't shaved in years (full beard). But if I shaved . . .

 

[selmerfan]

Thanks guys, all good advice and along the lines of what I was thinking. I have chore boys downstairs in the gun cleaning kit as well as Kroil, Eezox, Hoppe's #9, Break-Free CLP, Butch's Gun Oil. I was thinking a paper towel saturated with Kroil and left to lay on the finish over night will penetrate as well as anything can, then a light rub with the Chore Boy was my first step - you've all confirmed my suspicion. I haven't used CorrosionX - is it all that different from the others listed? I know Kroil is the creepingest, penetratingest oil I've ever used - everything from guns to rusted bolts on bulldozer track shoes to "stuck" cylinders on Farmall "M" engine rebuild - it does the job if you give it time.