K38 Masterpiece

[Retired W4]

All I can add is I can't wait to see the letter. I hope Don is not too busy these days.

 

[22hipower]

OK here is a better close up on 4"

The crown certainly looks factory to me. Be sure and let us know what the letter says.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[mchom]

Agreed

The crown certainly looks factory to me. Be sure and let us know what the letter says.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Yes my thoughts as well. I will share the letter results soon as they arrive

 

[PeteC]

The information on the KCMPD and ISP guns is not completely consistent, and not in line with the SCSW book, either.

From what I have seen posted here, and number of guns that have shown up locally at shows and online, I have to assume that many more similar 4- and 5-inch K-38 Masterpiece examples sold to dealers, than to the two departments in question.

Even more confusing, there are Combat Masterpiece examples with 5" barrels. See post linked below of one with a tapered barrel and beveled frame:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139900686-post11.html

K-38 Masterpiece (pre-14) examples with barrels cut down to 4 or 5" in the factory may not be common, but apparently not rare. Example from 1957:

Some factory guns apparently shipped in boxes with labels where 6" was crossed out or overwritten by hand.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/135462446-post9.html

This is a post with a Model 14-2 factory special order:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/140733502-post29.html

Edit: I think when I see a 4 or 5" barrel with a straight barrel, and sharp edge of the frame above the barrel, I assume it is a K-38 Masterpiece, pre-Model 14. If I see one with a 5" tapered barrel, and beveled frame edge, I will assume it is a Combat Masterpiece (unless there is a letter stating otherwise), LOL.

 

[Engine49guy]

I must have missed this post,
First look to see if the front site ramp is held to the barrel with two cross pins.

If the pins are there it was factory built or modified.
The 14-2 Hanen special used a heavier profile Model 10hb with no barrel rib grooves.
The Model 15 used the older lighter narrow rib barrel, the barrel changed to a wide rb hb like the model 14 in the 15-5 Iirc.
Did a detailed comparison years ago, here is a link if interested
Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy

 

[PeteC]

I must have missed this post,
First look to see if the front site ramp is held to the barrel with two cross pins.

If the pins are there it was factory built or modified.
The 14-2 Hanen special used a heavier profile Model 10hb with no barrel rib grooves.
The Model 15 used the older lighter narrow rib barrel, the barrel changed to a wide rb hb like the model 14 in the 15-5 Iirc.
Did a detailed comparison years ago, here is a link if interested
Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy

I read that and some of your other posts (awesome information btw), but I am not sure what you mean by the two cross pins. A gunsmith might have used the same method, no?

Does your thread also apply to the pre- and post-Model 14 with cut down barrels, especially those from 1957? There seem to be more of them around than the shipments to a couple police departments would suggest, even if you take overruns into account. There seem to be factory letters and shipping/receiving records showing some were sold to dealers anywhere from 2 to 24 at a time!

 

[mchom]

4 inch masterpiece

Thanks for sharing the link

I dont see any pins
If I read your comments correctly this would indicate a non factory modification ?

 

[murphydog]

S & W made a few test batches of K-38 Masterpieces/model 14s with 4" barrels, exactly like yours appears to be. Speculation is they were trial guns for LE agencies (who wanted a slightly more muzzle heavy .38 Combat Masterpiece/model 15).

As stated above, the barrel looks to be factory or of factory level workmanship. The barrel crown is exactly how the factory would do it. There are likely pins retaining the front sight base that have been polished flush with the barrel rib.

Since you are an SWCA member, I'd "Ship Date Request" this one. Wouldn't be surprised he replies "interesting gun", which is a hint of the letter to come.

 

[murphydog]

The information on the KCMPD and ISP guns is not completely consistent, and not in line with the SCSW book, either.

From what I have seen posted here, and number of guns that have shown up locally at shows and online, I have to assume that many more similar 4- and 5-inch K-38 Masterpiece examples sold to dealers, than to the two departments in question.

Even more confusing, there are Combat Masterpiece examples with 5" barrels. See post linked below of one with a tapered barrel and beveled frame:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139900686-post11.html

K-38 Masterpiece (pre-14) examples with barrels cut down to 4 or 5" in the factory may not be common, but apparently not rare. Example from 1957:

Some factory guns apparently shipped in boxes with labels where 6" was crossed out or overwritten by hand.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/135462446-post9.html

This is a post with a Model 14-2 factory special order:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/140733502-post29.html

Edit: I think when I see a 4 or 5" barrel with a straight barrel, and sharp edge of the frame above the barrel, I assume it is a K-38 Masterpiece, pre-Model 14. If I see one with a 5" tapered barrel, and beveled frame edge, I will assume it is a Combat Masterpiece (unless there is a letter stating otherwise), LOL.

Forum member linde is one of the local experts on the 5" .38 CMs and K-38s...

But to my understanding the longer 5" CMs came earlier (1952 time frame) with many if not all bought for the MO State Highway Patrol. The shorter 5" K-38s went to the IL State Police but a fair number of overrun examples sold on the regular commercial market are known.

Russ may be along with more details.

 

[Engine49guy]

The muzzle crown does look factory,
If u zoom in on Petec's 2nd pic u will c the cross pins. Some were " proud" most were polished flush.
The factory used this method until around 1970 when the ramp became integral with the barrel with a pinned fs blade.
I've never seen a gunsmith modified barrel that could mimic the factory cross pin method.

 

[PeteC]

Forum member linde is one of the local experts on the 5" .38 CMs and K-38s...

But to my understanding the longer 5" CMs came earlier (1952 time frame) with many if not all bought for the MO State Highway Patrol. The shorter 5" K-38s went to the IL State Police but a fair number of overrun examples sold on the regular commercial market are known.

Russ may be along with more details.

The SCSW book lists KCPD and ISP orders as both in 1957, and the ones I've seen pics of are either 4-screw pre-Model 14, or 14-2. 90% of what I know about these comes from this forum. The pics I posted are of a 5", 4-screw, K 302xxx serial number, and I assume it was a regular civilian dealer order. (emphasis on assume, )

The reason why I was interested in this thread:

The gun mchom posted is 1955 4", a full 2 years before the two agency orders (for shorter 5" barrels). That would support my belief that there are many more sold through dealers, or special orders out there, than what can be accounted for by overruns. Unfortunately it is only a belief, because I don't have any paperwork as evidence, and saying it does not make it so, Looking forward to the letter mchom requested.

edit: Link to previously posted letter:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/136096765-post1.html

 

[mchom]

Update

Ship date and 4" barrel length

Mike, K-38 Masterpiece serial number K231695 was shipped in September 1955 and the barrel length is correct. I hope that this help. Roy