KABOOM!!!

[sourdough44]

Early on, I thought he mentioned the bullet in question went on to the target.

Thanks for posting, another example to keep us reloaders on our toes.

I may have to back up all the way to the decision to load that plated bullet with win-296/H-110. Way back there is where things started to become suspect. I have loaded that bullet for my 44 mag, with a mid & mild load of a faster burning powder. That H-110 is reserved for jacketed bullets or hard-cast.

No matter, glad the shooter got through it unscathed, except for the gun damage.

 

[Fishslayer]

I can certainly see how the containers are all a generic plastic & labels smaller , some slippin by ???

Gottsta pay attention. Personally, I would have made these two packages look a bit more different.

 

[silentflyer]

Wow, I saw something similar once with Bulls Eye, it may be 231 rather than 296, if it was a new can of powder is it possible it was mis-labeled?

 

[blujax01]

When Cowboy Action Shooting was in its infancy, and beyond, a number of shooters had charges blow their handguns. It was found out that their progressive presses (I do not remember the brand) were throwing double-charges by accident...as I said...without the shooter's knowledge.

Until they went back to their progressives and paid closer attention to the powder charging operation.

They were using fast burning powders.

I have been having this argument forever.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with the type of press used. Nor were those accidents.
Negligence is negligence.
Inattention to detail is inattention to detail.
The press did only what the operator initiated.

Like old Clint said: "Well, A man's gotta know his limitations."

It's like blaming the gun for the "accidental" shooting.
"If he used a single action instead of one of them newfangled semiautos..."

Over and over the detractor states that virtually every misfire in the recorded history of mankind was due to the reloader using a progressive press.

Well, as the fellas on TV say: "Myth Busted."

 

[Mossy Pops]

If this was indeed hodgdon's fault the net would be inundated with my gun blew up stories, cause I HIGHLY doubt it would be 1 isolated incident.

I am a firm believer in only having the 1 powder jug I'm using out anywhere near my reloading bench. Everything is emptied when finished back to that 1 powder jug, so there is no confusion of what I last used or oops I poured it in the wrong jug.

That is a great piece of advice. I've been hand loading for 30 years and just last week I had a bottle of XBR-8208 and a bottle of Trail Boss on the bench at the same time. The labels aren't even remotely similar yet I caught myself grabbing and ready to pour from the wrong one. I did catch myself but the point I would make is that the longer you do something, the more prone you are to get sloppy with procedures. I should not have had two bottles out at once and I knew that but I did anyway. We should all use this Kaboom event as motivation to review our own unique loading procedures and ensure we are sticking to them.

 

[blujax01]

Plus One to Mossy Pops.

 

[imnobody]

plus-plus one to Mossy Pops. The passing of this short barrel 44 should not be in vain. I've been away from shooting and reloading for awhile and am just now getting back into it. I have found myself tempted to cut safety in order to "catch up" with my rekindled enthusiasm. Such as leaving the safety glasses off, or breaking my own rule of never reloading after 8 pm.(When I am starting to unwind for the day is not the best time to be playing with gun powder and primers. M.O.) Even being too hasty to question a powder drop (Darn Unique always bridging in my funnel.) It should be second nature- any question or concern about any part of the process. STOP. Don't be afraid to break down some rounds and be Totally sure. Complacency costs.

 

[fredj338]

When Cowboy Action Shooting was in its infancy, and beyond, a number of shooters had charges blow their handguns. It was found out that their progressive presses (I do not remember the brand) were throwing double-charges by accident...as I said...without the shooter's knowledge.

Until they went back to their progressives and paid closer attention to the powder charging operation.

They were using fast burning powders.

NOpe, not buying that one either. As far as I know, all measures use a fixed volume chamber. It may be adjustabvle, but once set, you can't put more than what is in the metering chamber. No, what was probably happening was people loading in a 550 were not advancing the shell plate. Add in the huge 45colt case & a tiny amount of powder that can't be seen inside the case, you get a KB. Far too many reloaders take their hobby to lightly & that is how you get mistakes.
I subscribe to the one powder on the bench at all times as well. Another backup is to label the measure with the powder inside. I have three presses & measures onn bench. I do leave powder in the measures unless not loading for a long period of time, so I can have three diff powders at one time, but only one on the bench behind the press I am using. Paying attention is crucial. As the picture above shows, easy to make a mistake if you aren't paying attention & don't 100% understand what you are doing. An exp reloader would instantly know that the powder being put into those 44maqgs was NOT W296, not even close.

 

[semperfi71]

I have been having this argument forever.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with the type of press used. Nor were those accidents.
Negligence is negligence.
Inattention to detail is inattention to detail.
The press did only what the operator initiated.

Like old Clint said: "Well, A man's gotta know his limitations."

It's like blaming the gun for the "accidental" shooting.
"If he used a single action instead of one of them newfangled semiautos..."

Over and over the detractor states that virtually every misfire in the recorded history of mankind was due to the reloader using a progressive press.

Well, as the fellas on TV say: "Myth Busted."

I'm glad you were "there" when these incidents occurred and that "you" actually viewed and examined each individual situation.

I know that enough of this was reported and investigated and proved to be a double-charge of powder by the press and that the charging operation did not allow the shooter to examine the case after powder charging. I also know that a friend of mine was aware of this and altered his Dillon to insure it does not happen.

I am not anti-progressive. I do not use them because I do not need them. Dillon has an excellent reputation and just about any progressive user I know prefers Dillon. I do not remember the press, it might have been a model of Dillon at the time.

But I am pleased that we have your "expert" knowledge here to correct my statements.

 

[semperfi71]

No, what was probably happening was people loading in a 550 were not advancing the shell plate. Add in the huge 45colt case & a tiny amount of powder that can't be seen inside the case, you get a KB.

This may well be the type of incident that caused the problem. I could be mis-interpreted by stating "without the user's knowledge", but up until the shooter pulled the trigger and the subsequent explosion...to his/her "knowledge" the loads were "good". Whether it was operator error or an unintended malfunction of the progressive press the problem was examined and the results spread to the CAS community to be "careful"

Cowboy Action Shooting also spurred more reports, and interest, in the "secondary detonation" theory (if I have the term correct). The theory being that using too light a charge in too large a case causes the powder charge to separate and the shooter gets TWO detonations inside the case and thereby blowing the weapon. The CAS shooters where trying to load very small doses of fast burning powders to minimalize recoil. However, supposedly the powder companies have proved this theory is not possible, or that it does not occur. As such IMR's Trail Boss and VithaVouri's N32C Tinstar were produced to fill large cases with save amounts of powder at low velocities.

 

[andyo5]

No, what was probably happening was people loading in a 550 were not advancing the shell plate. Add in the huge 45colt case & a tiny amount of powder that can't be seen inside the case, you get a KB.

I agree. I have a Dillon 550. There is a reason why I don't watch TV while I am reloading. Too many times, if you have to stop for some reason and then come back to the reloader you are not sure of what the last thing you did was. Nowadays if I have to stop, when starting again the first thing I will do is dump a case that doesn't already have a bullet in it and recharge. Takes little time and guarantees no double charge.
The machine is not capable of double charging all by itself. If it was, nobody would buy it.
It needs an accomplice.

 

[25elk]

If your friend is correct and the container had something other than what was labeled he might be able to get another 629 easily. Probably be best to have an attorney make the deal. Could work out great, especially if the attorney is working on a contingency basis.

 

[blujax01]

I'm glad you were "there" when these incidents occurred and that "you" actually viewed and examined each individual situation.

....

I always have and always will contend that if a reloader isn't paying attention to his craft, whether he is using a single stage, a turret or a progressive, it makes absolutely no difference. Progressive presses cause no more Kabooms than single stage presses. Bad press operators cause Kabooms.

Perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. If that be the situation, I apologize.

Alan Slocum

 

[semperfi71]

blujax01,

Thank you and I apologize as I realize my original post was misleading. I am also guilty of speaking from "memory"...a sometimes bad thing as I am finding out these days. I am also guilty of not remembering that the original poster had stated he was using a single-stage press.

You are correct, almost always a blown firearm with handloads ends up back "upon" the reloader "person" and not the equipment. As such as what happened with the reports of light charges in large cases in CAS. It was ultimately, probably, the reloader person who somehow double-charged.

As posted here by others reloading is easy, and not too technical but it requires attention to detail at all times.

When I stated reloading in 1973 the manuals then stated that only one powder on the bench at a time. I have always adhered to that.

Also of importance is maintaining a quality and safe series of "practices/habits" and never deviating from them.

I use an RCBS Junior since 1973 and after powdering a case I always check the powder level of each case before I seat the bullet. Except those times that I forget to do so!!

However, if I forget on too many cases and have already seated the bullets I weigh the final cartridge against a known properly checked one.

I loaned a .45 Colt to a fellow CAS shooter one time and after he shot his first "scenario" I noticed he was having a hard time ejecting HIS ammo from MY gun. I figured I'd better investigate. So I assisted him in the unloading process and we found 3 very stuck cases. When I got home and was cleaning my sixgun (a Uberti) I noticed a very short, thin "line" on one of the chamber walls outside the cylinder. Further inspection and measuring showed all three chambers, of the assumed stuck cases, have been bulged. And the one with the "little" line...that was a line indicating that the cylinder wall was stretched to the point of almost bursting. I was lucky in that all I had to replace was the cylinder. I called the shooter immediately and told him to pull all of those loads.

 

[semperfi71]

Gottsta pay attention. Personally, I would have made these two packages look a bit more different.

I too have noticed the recent change to the 2400 canister labels and think it is a bad mistake. Even so much that I thought of contacting the company and suggesting it was a bad mistake. However I have all the 2400 I'll ever need and I am accustomed to most companies not really caring what customers think.

 

[GLV]

Two 550s

on the bench, one SP and one LP. 10 powder measures set up with dies above the bench, some with powder in them, but all marked with powder, weight, date, etc. Even the completely empty measures are marked with the name and amount of last powder used in them.

No cans of powder are ever left on the reloading benches. No radio, tv, or people are in the room when I reload. By the Grace of God, in my 50+ years of loading, no events as above have happened to me, and I thank God no one was injured.

I would love to have my big magnifier to look at these powders--however I think only a lab could properly analyze what was shown.

Was the initial poster able to get a sample from the can from which the powder was taken?

As far as returns--as owner of a full time gun store in a small town mall for 16 years, I did not take returns on ammo, powder, primers, at all.

I hope investigation yields an answer.

 

[kd5exp]

First of all thank God nobody was hurt. This is a great post and will make me double think about all of this when reloading. Like many have said I don't think it's a mislabeled container or we would see alot more of this. I have had to put things in order here to make sure all is in the right place. Not just powder but dies also. I mixed my 223 die with my 38 sp and ruined alot of brass. It can be done. Now it's one at a time only, keep it all together. I will be ordering another set of dies so I can keep 38 sp and 357 mags separate. I have seated several 357's way too deep using the setup from 38 sp. Shows you must think and think again and back up and take a good look at things. Great info here and it will help me think more about what i'm doing. A great loss of a fine gun but at least no flesh damage.

 

[w0lfattack]

This might sound awful but was anyone else thinking flesh grows back - a gun doesn't? Lol

 

[imnobody]

Dear wOlfattack,
I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Admiringly yours,
imnobody

 

[trigtechr]

andyo5 wrote:
Years ago, Jeff Cooper wrote an article called "The 2.7 Bullseye surprise" to describe some kabooms that occurred amongst target shooters who were loading 38 specials with the lightest load that was published for their bullets ...

Thirty-five years ago, when I was in charge of firearms training for a small sheriff's department, we obtained a progressive press to use for our training/practice ammo. We loaded 2.7 Bullseye / 148 gr cast lead. Shot hundreds of them. Then we had a KABOOM. Usual results, top gone from cylinder, frame broken, on a Model 28 S&W.
My personal experience discounted double charge as a possibility – my young wife, trying to be helpful, double-charged a whole box of the same 2.7/148 for me in my home workshop, using a single stage press. I fired most of them with no problem in my S&W .357. Pulled and weighed a few to verify the mistake.
My conclusion – admittedly speculative, but based on observation – was that static electricity caused a buildup in the powder measure, of the fine powder created by the shearing effect of the powder measure cylinder rotation. The accumulated deposit would drop of its own weight into ONE case, and the additional volume was too small to be noticed. But the faster burning rate of the pulverized Bullseye added to the normal charge would create excessive pressure.

trigtechr