KABOOM!!!

[Titegroups]

I bet he dumped in powder from another container when emptying his hoper like I said above.

 

[Cdog]

It worries me when I see all the powder swapping going on now. Seems people just aren't thinking?

It may not be the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

Buying/trading for powder that's already changed hands a few times just ain't something I'll ever be comfortable with doing.

 

[Rule3]

Wow, this thread is drifting towards it's a Hodgdons issue??? Based on what.?? There are no facts whatsoever.

Someone, who knows someone, blew up a gun and its the powder Company. Please!

 

[TAROMAN]

"Sealed can"?
Those inner seals on powder containers certainly aren't a safety seal.
Not like the shrink-wrap seals on food and medicine containers.
I regularly find them pulling loose on new cans.
In the current hysteria, I'm seeing lots of "powder swapping", partial cans for sale and powder being sold at gunshows. None of these are sources that I would trust.
Many ways this might have happened, and IMHO a Hodgdon mistake isn't one of them.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

If this was indeed hodgdon's fault the net would be inundated with my gun blew up stories, cause I HIGHLY doubt it would be 1 isolated incident.

I am a firm believer in only having the 1 powder jug I'm using out anywhere near my reloading bench. Everything is emptied when finished back to that 1 powder jug, so there is no confusion of what I last used or oops I poured it in the wrong jug.

 

[semperfi71]

Nasty damage. Glad no one was hurt.

It appears, in my experiences of reading/hearing of reloading disasters, that when handguns "blow" they go up and out and not back so much into the shooter. But that may depend on the weapon. As such they rarely seriously impact the shooter...if he/she is wearing safety glasses.

I have these questions.

Was the powder bought at a gun-show, or from someone other than a true store-front dealer? I never buy gunpowder except from the store-front dealer or from an online reputable dealer.

Was the reloader using a progressive press. Some models of progressives have been known to double-charge without the users knowledge. However a double-charge of W296 would overflow the case and spill powder somewhere. In theory that would/should have been observed. But I do know that some people can very inattentive as a habit...and ALL people can be inattentive on occasions.

If the powder came out of a factory sealed container and was bought from a store-front (or internet legitimate) dealer, the powder should be sent to Hodgdons for testing. This is imperative. There could be a whole load of mismarked Hodgdons powder floating around. However it would also be surfacing very soon with more gun explosions.

If the one particular round had too long of a case, and too harsh of a crimp it could cause a serious pressure spike, even with a 22.0 grain load.

In my use of W296/H110 22.0 grains is a maximum load in my .44 magnum.

 

[blujax01]

...
Was the reloader using a progressive press. Some models of progressives have been known to double-charge without the users knowledge. ....

Now why didn't I think of that??!!!
My Dillon has a mind of it's own and often takes the initiative and does what it chooses to behind my back.

Reading the entire thread, the OP says his friend weighs every charge on a 5-0-5 and each charge was within 0.2 grains of each other. (Yet the OP pulled some and found they were 1.8 grains below target) so it was definitely a single stage press.

 

[Twoboxer]

If you remember you did everything right, and a gun blows up, the odds are incredibly long that YOU didn't notice or you forgot what YOU did wrong.

Second place to look is . . . where exactly did he buy this powder?

Last place to look for the source of the problem is Hodgdon et al.

 

[Cdog]

Want To Sell: Unique and customized Smith & Wesson Model 629-1 in LNIB condition (other than slight wear from one minor KaBoom!). Own a gun unlike almost all others! Amaze and amuse your friends at the range.

________________________________________________________

Another really good reason to only shoot factory loaded ammo!

Very helpful insightful post.

Obviously not much on handloading. If you have more faith in factory fodder, then by all means choose it.

Are all handloaders the same? Are all shooters the same? Are all thieves the same? Are all doctors the same? I can go on for a while.

Why lump all handloading together?

Those factories are operated by the same animals that operate the home presses. They also make mistakes. It ain't difficult to find recalls on factory loaded stuff.

Those who can do. Those who can't, well they depend on others.

I'm already more dependent on others than I care to be.

 

[fredj338]

Could bullet setback affect pressure, like when loading a 180gr .40?

No. In large magnum cases w/ uber slow powders, you can compress the powder qutie a bit & do with 300gr+ bullets. So no, OAL is not the culprit here, nothing like load the small volume 40 w/ faster powders. The only thing that can take the cyl off like that is a 2x or 3x charge of fast or uberfast powder. Even a bbl obstruction would not likely peel back the cyl. That it as an immediate over pressures situtation right at the cyl.

 

[fredj338]

That the canister was supposed to contain 296 when it really contained 231? Is there suspicion that it was mislabeled at the factory or that some other hand loading mix up was to blame. My gosh, if it was a factory error Winchester owes somebody a new gun.

I would say that was virtually impossible for a single event. They would have to have run off 100s or 1000s of 1# cans & you would have heard about it. Not sayign the OP's friend doesn't know what he is doing, but W296 & W231 look nothing alike as shown. ThaT should have been the first clue.
As to buying it new, from who? Buying from anyone but a lic dealer is going to be suspect. You have no idea what someone else put up in a can. Sealed? It's not like there is wax or other seal, just open the lid & peel off the paper cover. I have partial cans 10yrs old that the cover still peels off when opened. So what likely happend is he bought the powder off a gunshow table or from a private party. The powder was likely swapped. So at least we know what casued the KB, just not sure how it could have happened, but I have heard of strange KBs.

 

[andyo5]

Have you ever tried to return ammunition or gunpowder to the store where you purchased it?
I tried to return ammo once. I had wanted 45 ACP ammo and unknowingly bought 45 +P ammo. My gun has an aluminum frame and I didn't want to damage it.
The store would not take them back. I can't blame them. For all they know, I might be a practical joker and could have reloaded one or more of them with a KABOOM load. I doubt that they would accept gunpowder or primers, either.

 

[Fishslayer]

A double charge of a fast burning powder can cause catastrophic results.

A single charge of fast pistol powder will do the same thing... if that single charge is 22gr.

I learned very early on and relatively cheaply (cost me a few ounces of powder) about "One can on the bench at a time!"

I'll weigh in with the "wrong powder" group. Shame about the revolver but glad your friend is OK.

 

[fredj338]

Cdog, I did not mean to offend you, or anybody else.

I tried to be funny (and probably failed) in the top of my post. I have edited the bottom part to indicate that this is a reason why I should not handload.

You have quite appropriately pointed out that there are many safe handloaders out there, producing first quality ammo at low cost.

Reloading is actually the only way ro feed a 44mag enough to get good with it MO. Plus reloading allows you to customize ammo, light, medium, full power. With factory it's pretty much full power ammo. Handloading is the way to go but it is not for everyone & you do have to pay attention, all the time, you can never lose focus, not even for a few seconds.

 

[A10]

WOW!
Glad everyone is OK! I'd love to get a closer look at the frame......

 

[bp231986]

O man!! not only would i need a new gun but a new pair of underwear too!!

 

[TAROMAN]

Looking at the images as closely as possible on my screen, it appears as if the barrel might possibly have survived.
Given the present mania for 3" guns, he may be able to sell it to recoup a bit of the loss.

 

[GP100man]

WOW !!!!

296 shooters ,stay on your toes & pay attention !!

I can certainly see how the containers are all a generic plastic & labels smaller , some slippin by ???


Proving it ????

Terrible consicuences !!!

 

[semperfi71]

Now why didn't I think of that??!!!
My Dillon has a mind of it's own and often takes the initiative and does what it chooses to behind my back.

When Cowboy Action Shooting was in its infancy, and beyond, a number of shooters had charges blow their handguns. It was found out that their progressive presses (I do not remember the brand) were throwing double-charges by accident...as I said...without the shooter's knowledge.

Until they went back to their progressives and paid closer attention to the powder charging operation.

They were using fast burning powders.

 

[riverrat38]

Looking at the images as closely as possible on my screen, it appears as if the barrel might possibly have survived.
Given the present mania for 3" guns, he may be able to sell it to recoup a bit of the loss.

I suspect that the barrel wasn't damaged because the pressure was gone when the cylinder and top strap came apart.
It would be interesting to know what the bullet did. Where did it end up. And the case.

Best,
Rick

 

[sourdough44]

Early on, I thought he mentioned the bullet in question went on to the target.

Thanks for posting, another example to keep us reloaders on our toes.

I may have to back up all the way to the decision to load that plated bullet with win-296/H-110. Way back there is where things started to become suspect. I have loaded that bullet for my 44 mag, with a mid & mild load of a faster burning powder. That H-110 is reserved for jacketed bullets or hard-cast.

No matter, glad the shooter got through it unscathed, except for the gun damage.

 

[Fishslayer]

I can certainly see how the containers are all a generic plastic & labels smaller , some slippin by ???

Gottsta pay attention. Personally, I would have made these two packages look a bit more different.

 

[silentflyer]

Wow, I saw something similar once with Bulls Eye, it may be 231 rather than 296, if it was a new can of powder is it possible it was mis-labeled?

 

[blujax01]

When Cowboy Action Shooting was in its infancy, and beyond, a number of shooters had charges blow their handguns. It was found out that their progressive presses (I do not remember the brand) were throwing double-charges by accident...as I said...without the shooter's knowledge.

Until they went back to their progressives and paid closer attention to the powder charging operation.

They were using fast burning powders.

I have been having this argument forever.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with the type of press used. Nor were those accidents.
Negligence is negligence.
Inattention to detail is inattention to detail.
The press did only what the operator initiated.

Like old Clint said: "Well, A man's gotta know his limitations."

It's like blaming the gun for the "accidental" shooting.
"If he used a single action instead of one of them newfangled semiautos..."

Over and over the detractor states that virtually every misfire in the recorded history of mankind was due to the reloader using a progressive press.

Well, as the fellas on TV say: "Myth Busted."

 

[Mossy Pops]

If this was indeed hodgdon's fault the net would be inundated with my gun blew up stories, cause I HIGHLY doubt it would be 1 isolated incident.

I am a firm believer in only having the 1 powder jug I'm using out anywhere near my reloading bench. Everything is emptied when finished back to that 1 powder jug, so there is no confusion of what I last used or oops I poured it in the wrong jug.

That is a great piece of advice. I've been hand loading for 30 years and just last week I had a bottle of XBR-8208 and a bottle of Trail Boss on the bench at the same time. The labels aren't even remotely similar yet I caught myself grabbing and ready to pour from the wrong one. I did catch myself but the point I would make is that the longer you do something, the more prone you are to get sloppy with procedures. I should not have had two bottles out at once and I knew that but I did anyway. We should all use this Kaboom event as motivation to review our own unique loading procedures and ensure we are sticking to them.

 

[blujax01]

Plus One to Mossy Pops.

 

[imnobody]

plus-plus one to Mossy Pops. The passing of this short barrel 44 should not be in vain. I've been away from shooting and reloading for awhile and am just now getting back into it. I have found myself tempted to cut safety in order to "catch up" with my rekindled enthusiasm. Such as leaving the safety glasses off, or breaking my own rule of never reloading after 8 pm.(When I am starting to unwind for the day is not the best time to be playing with gun powder and primers. M.O.) Even being too hasty to question a powder drop (Darn Unique always bridging in my funnel.) It should be second nature- any question or concern about any part of the process. STOP. Don't be afraid to break down some rounds and be Totally sure. Complacency costs.

 

[fredj338]

When Cowboy Action Shooting was in its infancy, and beyond, a number of shooters had charges blow their handguns. It was found out that their progressive presses (I do not remember the brand) were throwing double-charges by accident...as I said...without the shooter's knowledge.

Until they went back to their progressives and paid closer attention to the powder charging operation.

They were using fast burning powders.

NOpe, not buying that one either. As far as I know, all measures use a fixed volume chamber. It may be adjustabvle, but once set, you can't put more than what is in the metering chamber. No, what was probably happening was people loading in a 550 were not advancing the shell plate. Add in the huge 45colt case & a tiny amount of powder that can't be seen inside the case, you get a KB. Far too many reloaders take their hobby to lightly & that is how you get mistakes.
I subscribe to the one powder on the bench at all times as well. Another backup is to label the measure with the powder inside. I have three presses & measures onn bench. I do leave powder in the measures unless not loading for a long period of time, so I can have three diff powders at one time, but only one on the bench behind the press I am using. Paying attention is crucial. As the picture above shows, easy to make a mistake if you aren't paying attention & don't 100% understand what you are doing. An exp reloader would instantly know that the powder being put into those 44maqgs was NOT W296, not even close.

 

[semperfi71]

I have been having this argument forever.

Your hypothetical has nothing to do with the type of press used. Nor were those accidents.
Negligence is negligence.
Inattention to detail is inattention to detail.
The press did only what the operator initiated.

Like old Clint said: "Well, A man's gotta know his limitations."

It's like blaming the gun for the "accidental" shooting.
"If he used a single action instead of one of them newfangled semiautos..."

Over and over the detractor states that virtually every misfire in the recorded history of mankind was due to the reloader using a progressive press.

Well, as the fellas on TV say: "Myth Busted."

I'm glad you were "there" when these incidents occurred and that "you" actually viewed and examined each individual situation.

I know that enough of this was reported and investigated and proved to be a double-charge of powder by the press and that the charging operation did not allow the shooter to examine the case after powder charging. I also know that a friend of mine was aware of this and altered his Dillon to insure it does not happen.

I am not anti-progressive. I do not use them because I do not need them. Dillon has an excellent reputation and just about any progressive user I know prefers Dillon. I do not remember the press, it might have been a model of Dillon at the time.

But I am pleased that we have your "expert" knowledge here to correct my statements.

 

[semperfi71]

No, what was probably happening was people loading in a 550 were not advancing the shell plate. Add in the huge 45colt case & a tiny amount of powder that can't be seen inside the case, you get a KB.

This may well be the type of incident that caused the problem. I could be mis-interpreted by stating "without the user's knowledge", but up until the shooter pulled the trigger and the subsequent explosion...to his/her "knowledge" the loads were "good". Whether it was operator error or an unintended malfunction of the progressive press the problem was examined and the results spread to the CAS community to be "careful"

Cowboy Action Shooting also spurred more reports, and interest, in the "secondary detonation" theory (if I have the term correct). The theory being that using too light a charge in too large a case causes the powder charge to separate and the shooter gets TWO detonations inside the case and thereby blowing the weapon. The CAS shooters where trying to load very small doses of fast burning powders to minimalize recoil. However, supposedly the powder companies have proved this theory is not possible, or that it does not occur. As such IMR's Trail Boss and VithaVouri's N32C Tinstar were produced to fill large cases with save amounts of powder at low velocities.