LEO"S - What do you think?

[Don 73]

I did check with my Lt (who teaches a CCW class) about when you have to announce. He stated that anytime you have an interaction with an officer you are supposed to announce, so in the case of the OP, he should have announced both times.

In Cleveland, (Ohio) it is a M3/M2 (misdemeanor) not to announce, so just to be safe, I would recommend to announce if you have ANY doubt about what your state's laws.

 

[John H/PA]

You are assuming that the officer didn't notice that you were carrying. Maybe he didn't, and maybe he did but the situation and your demeanor did not alarm him, so he chose to not ask or take action. Officer safety is a priority because he always want to go home at the end of his shift. If the law doesn't require you to annouce, and he doesn't ask, leave it alone.

 

[flintsghost]

It occurred to me as he was standing there that he had no idea I was armed. The law in my home state requires an individual who has a carry permit, and is carrying, to notify an officer immediately...UPON BEING PULLED OVER. Since we were not "pulled over" I was within the law to NOT reveal that I was carrying. Still, I'd like to know what those of you who are LEO's have to say about the situation. Did I handle it satisfactory to you, or would you have preferred something else be done?

Does the law state, "being pulled over," or does it state "contact." What occurred is a contact. Police contact many people through out the day and only a few are negative type contacts. When I was working, I could care less who had a firearm and who did not. Of course in Colorado, people with firearms in their gunracks and pistols etc in their glove boxes was pretty much a norm for the years I worked. As a trooper, It never bothered me and if people asked me, all I would say is that while we are stopped here just don't touch it. Lots of other Troopers wouldn't always agree though. At one time, a clearance on a contact would come up, "person of interest," if one had a Colorado Permit. That is no longer the case, but could be in other states. In Colorado there is no duty to notify in the law, and I personally see no reason for it.

 

[Protected One]

Does the law state, "being pulled over," or does it state "contact." What occurred is a contact. Police contact many people through out the day and only a few are negative type contacts. When I was working, I could care less who had a firearm and who did not. Of course in Colorado, people with firearms in their gunracks and pistols etc in their glove boxes was pretty much a norm for the years I worked. As a trooper, It never bothered me and if people asked me, all I would say is that while we are stopped here just don't touch it. Lots of other Troopers wouldn't always agree though. At one time, a clearance on a contact would come up, "person of interest," if one had a Colorado Permit. That is no longer the case, but could be in other states. In Colorado there is no duty to notify in the law, and I personally see no reason for it.

See post #19

 

[Der Biermeister]

I'm about as mellow as you're going to find when it comes to civilian carry, I encourage it and if (when) someone announces to me that they are a licensed CCW, my threat assessment (not awareness) drops a notch. If someone is able to pass a CCH and meet the requirements to get a license, odds are very good that they are not a threat to me.

Thank you for that input, you being an LEO. You remind me EXACTLY of the officer that pulled me over about two months ago when I was going too fast on my motorcycle. (that is SO easy to do on a beautiful day when all is right with the world.)
Anyway, I immediately informed him I was carrying and he thanked me and informed me that he appreciated all of us that exercise our 2nd Amendment right. While I didn't expect any problems, that caught me pleasantly off-guard and made me think that just maybe there IS some truth to what I've read about CCers being more responsible than the average citizen, and that perhaps this is known by LEOs.


As a side-note, while I wasn't driving recklessly, he just gave me a warning. I happen to be one individual that when I get a break like that, I take it to heart and try to focus more on speed limits etc. (Albeit, sometimes when I go for years without being pulled over, I get a bit too lax.)

 

[feralmerril]

I got real embarrassed once. I had went into a sporting goods store, spotted a set of grips for a model 60 I had been reading about. My gun was in my truck so I went and got it, bought the grips and put them on in the store. I had unloaded the gun of course and left it unloaded and just put the gun in my pocket. There was a liquor store next to the sporting good store and without thinking I went in to pick up some snuff or whatever. A fellow walked over to me and asked, "How do you like those new herritt shooting star grips? I think that was the model of those grips, they were quite a bit oversized (longer) under the butt and it was sticking out of my pocket.
I mentioned I had just bought them next door and I thought at the time he could be a leo.
Not a week or two latter I had to requal for my guard job at the los angeles county sheriffs shooting range in antelope valley. Guess who the range master was! While I open carried on my job, I wasn't legal off the job. He didnt point that out, but it was a learning experience for me! Sipowitch, was that you? Naw your too young but he did look like you but this was around the early 1970s. I belive you have that job now?

 

[Fox On Point]

I see no reason...

...to bring it up in the situation you outlined. Indeed, I am actually impressed TWO Officers checked on her and you. I am glad your wife was ok.

 

[R865]

In Arizona I assume everyone I stop is carrying. I believe most LEOs here share the same belief. If I ask you do you have weapons, drugs or anything illegal in your vehicle you better tell me if you have a weapon. If you say no and then I find a weapon later (such as in the process of citing you for a DUI, warrant or misdemeanor drug possession), you may find yourself in the jail wagon and with serious charges. Honesty and common sense is the best policy.

 

[cgpd2515]

As an LEO in NC, when I pull a car and run it, I know before approaching if you have a CCW. I don't care if they announce or not. I treat each stop as if they are armed. Beyond that, I wouldn't expect someone to announce on contact....I don't when I'm off duty.

 

[steelslaver]

I am glad I live where I do. Got in a bit of a hurry getting out of a small town to make it to my evening hunt area and was pulled over by a deputy sheriff. Two loaded rifles (none in chambers) in front rack and wearing a loaded 6" model 25. Didn't blink an eye or ask about the guns. Just looked at my paper work and said he knew how it was headed out thinking about the hunt. HOORAY for MONTANA. A loaded gun in a truck is standard equipment especially from now till when coyotes go out of prime. Then it might drop to around 50% in rural areas. Only reason I would announce is if I was carrying and was asked to exit the vehicle or I had to open the glove compartment and there was a pistol inside. Then only to be polite and not cause him a nervous moment. I am sure most of the LEOs around here expect to see guns. I am sure they know I have a concealed weapons permit when they run my plates.

I heard Wyoming has the most guns per person, but, I bet Montana is right behind them. Wonder how they know, nobody here would even think of reporting how many guns they have and ignore a request for the information. Everyone I know has some and I don't know anyone with none.

 

[Don 73]

In Arizona I assume everyone I stop is carrying. I believe most LEOs here share the same belief. If I ask you do you have weapons, drugs or anything illegal in your vehicle you better tell me if you have a weapon. If you say no and then I find a weapon later (such as in the process of citing you for a DUI, warrant or misdemeanor drug possession), you may find yourself in the jail wagon and with serious charges. Honesty and common sense is the best policy.

I agree that I also assume that everyone I deal with is armed, if nothing else, MY weapon enters the equation so there is ALWAYS a gun involved in a civilian encounter. Honesty and common sense DOES play a huge role in how our encounter is going to play out. But If I'm citing you for an OVI, warrant or misdemeanor drug possession, and I discover you are armed, you're in a whole lot of trouble, because you're NO LONGER a LEGAL CCW, you are now guilty of "Weapons Under Disability," A separate felony charge all its own.

As I said before, I'm probably the most mellow cop you're going to run into, I often ask "where's the gun" before you are able to announce, that kind of takes the heat off of you trying to decide if you should announce or not. (I got that years ago from a friend on the Tennessee Highway Patrol, when in Tn, practically everyone was armed).

I work in the inner-city area of a large city and the characters I run into are often 'unsavory' to say the least, but I try to preach the 2nd Amendment to those who aren't. I would rather try to sort out a civilian shooting than I would investigate a civilian shot.

 

[Protected One]

It's refreshing to hear the attitudes of the law enforecement community that are represented in this thread. Having never served in that capacity, I am non-the-less appreciative of your service, and contributions here. From time to time I get to experience the quizical look on an officer(s) face when their waitress tell them that their lunch or dinner has been paid for by an appreciative citizen. Sometimes they try to object...but are always overruled!

I suspect that were I a police officer I too would approach every stop as though a gun were present (there are just too many stories of officers wounded or killed to do otherwise).

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Are you saying lead with "I have a cpl and am carrying?"

My suggestion in this case would be, "Good afternoon (morning, evening etc.) officer (if you wanna get really fancy address him or her by rank), I am licensed to carry a firearm in this state and am doing so." I live in a state where I don't have to declare so I wouldn't have in the given situation. I don't know what your state law is, so that would be my general advise on the matter. On a stop, I lead by handing over both licenses if I think the information is necessary.

 

[Hikertrash98]

It's refreshing to hear the attitudes of the law enforecement community that are represented in this thread. Having never served in that capacity, I am non-the-less appreciative of your service, and contributions here. From time to time I get to experience the quizical look on an officer(s) face when their waitress tell them that their lunch or dinner has been paid for by an appreciative citizen. Sometimes they try to object...but are always overruled!

I suspect that were I a police officer I too would approach every stop as though a gun were present (there are just too many stories of officers wounded or killed to do otherwise).

There is a gun at every stop- the officer's

No harm in mentioning you were armed, but I wouldn't have said anything. It was a consensual encounter and you weren't being stopped or detained so I see no reason why you would need to notify the officer.

 

[donniedee]

well when I was "coppin" id like to know and see your card then were all good unless you were a suspect, then you would be de fanged till we found out what was goin on, even when I was off duty and stopped id say im a cop and im armed never was a issue I NEVER felt threatened by a person with a ccw...just sayin

 

[VictorLouis]

My Ex and I have had our moments where the locals became involved. I've never revealed that I am armed. Only required to let them know when/if they ask me outright as part of investigavtive process.

Once the Ex said aloud to them, "He's gotta gun on him" (or the like), no doubt hoping they may tackle me in a polyester-pile-on, LOL. Just a reasoned, calm question from the officer, "Are you armed?", followed by her request to allow them to hold onto it until they were done.

I have no problem with that, knowing what can develop during a 'domestic'.

 

[Don 73]

As I've mentioned, personally I don't see a need for a legal carrier to announce EVERY TIME there is an LEO encounter UNLESS they are the subject of an invest. If everyone were to do so, I'd spend half my day looking at CCW permits and talking gun stuff to people instead of doing my job.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Another good way I've used to let LE know your carrying, without "announcing " and being worried of being searched or anything.

Note what kind of pistol they are carrying, "Glock eh? Model 22? I carry a S&W 6906 myself, how do you like the glock"

No No No. That is absolutely the worst approach. You're not the cop's shooting buddy. You're not "another gun hobbiest". YOU are a potential threat. Don't go mall ninja on any LEO and want to compare guns. Answer HIS questions. Satisfy his wanting to know if you're a bad guy. He already assumes, probably knows, you're armed.

Do NOT engage in idle chit chat about guns with cops who are checking on you.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Smithsrevenge]

No No No. That is absolutely the worst approach. You're not the cop's shooting buddy. You're not "another gun hobbiest". YOU are a potential threat. Don't go mall ninja on any LEO and want to compare guns. Answer HIS questions. Satisfy his wanting to know if you're a bad guy. He already assumes, probably knows, you're armed.

Do NOT engage in idle chit chat about guns with cops who are checking on you.


Sgt Lumpy

In my state he is not required to know. Nor is it any of his dang business to know. If I use that approach it's because I am being nice. It is because I feel like I want to let him know. It's because I feel he should know. If he asks me legally all I have to do is smile and that's it. Unless he demands to size the firearm, he has no right to even touch it. Look at it or know it exists. Also he already knows I'm armed after running my plates. No no mall ninja. Firearms instructor talking a cop is not a mall ninja nor is a curious citizen. If I invite a firearms related convo it's because I want to know his or her direct opinion. Not because they are a cop. Not because it's cool. Not because i feel I need to but because I'm curious of what they think of their sidearm. I do a lot of PR work with my local agencies. Cops that look at people as threats 24-7 and treat them as such without realizing they are the citizens that give them a job. Are the direct reason why most people fear the police, while officers that teat people like human beings instead of lesser equals are the ones that gain the respect of their communities. I respect you a lot Lumpy. However we'll have to agree to disagree on that. It's like saying a cop who enjoys cars can't shoot the mud about the 427 he just pulled over my. A proactive approach is always better than a me vs you standoff. Doesn't help anyone. The cops around here that look down upon the citizens. Usually get eaten by their own.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk

 

[SgtLumpy]

Smiths -

Please consider that LEOs are trained and paid (by you) to BE suspicious 24-7. EVERY contact is a potential threat. Even when the threat isn't the person being contacted, the threat can come from somewhere else (drive by, car crash etc). Non cops will NEVER understand that.

That doesn't mean cops have to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. And I tried very hard to get my troops to NOT develop that. But it does mean that cops have to have a "Command Presence". The cop is in charge of the contact. Allow him to quickly size up the situation and feel reasonably safe before trying to make chit-chat.

The topic of this thread -
LEOs - What do you think?

This LEO thinks that trying to strike up a conversation about the cop's gun is NOT a sensible or safe behavior. It's not you "being nice" as you suggest. It's you raising the suspicion of the cop who you're paying to be suspicious. Do you suppose that a bad guy might do that to see if the cop really knows anything about his issued gun? Are you making an assumption that you automatically are perceived as a "good guy" before that's been verified? Even good guys kill cops.

Allow that cop to run the show. Same as you were taught as a Marine. He is in charge. Attempts to "pal him in" are dangerous. Talk about muscle cars all you like, but do that once he's shown that he's open to it.

You've got a pretty big chip. Don't let it get you into trouble. You're not the Marine coming upon the villager now. You're the villager. As much as you don't want to, standing down a bit will help you gain the trust of those LEOs who you feel have "no dang business knowing you're armed".


Sgt Lumpy