LEOs: Shotgun Slugs?
- Thread starter JayFramer
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Back in the day, when that was all we had above the handgun, I think they did what they were supposed to do. With the advent and success of the patrol rifle, I think they're kind of a weapon of last resort now, used a lot with breaching rounds, chemical rounds, and less lethal stuff. I keep the shotgun I use for work (not really LEO any more, but similar) loaded with bean bags . . .
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I've seen what they can do, and yes, they are effective. Bad guy shooting at cops instantly found something else to do (fall over and bleed) when his stomach was perforated by a 1 ounce slug at 1500 feet per second.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
They can be extraordinarily effective. I saw a Border Patrolman kill a guy in a car with a single 12 gauge slug. Hit him under his left armpit, exited right ribs, instant lights out.
I had a suicide with a Mossberg Cruiser 12 gauge, Remington slug under the chin, in a small bedroom. It was spectacular. One way we proved it was a suicide was there wasn't a single spot on the walls or ceiling where you could put a shot glass without covering blood or goo. If another person had put the gun under his chin and touched it off there would have been a void where they blocked the spray.
I kept my short 870 loaded with four slugs, and a butt sleeve with four 00 buck and one slug. When I would chamber a round prior to an arrest I'd top off with the slug.
I had a suicide with a Mossberg Cruiser 12 gauge, Remington slug under the chin, in a small bedroom. It was spectacular. One way we proved it was a suicide was there wasn't a single spot on the walls or ceiling where you could put a shot glass without covering blood or goo. If another person had put the gun under his chin and touched it off there would have been a void where they blocked the spray.
I kept my short 870 loaded with four slugs, and a butt sleeve with four 00 buck and one slug. When I would chamber a round prior to an arrest I'd top off with the slug.
I kept the side saddle on my 870 filled with 6 slugs to back up the 00 buck in the magazine. They were there for extended range use since for most of my career we didn't have rifles. Never used one on a person but I have taken a couple of deer with a 12 gauge slug. I have no reservations about their effectiveness with good placement.
lawandorder
Member
I have been very impressed by the accuracy and the energy of slugs.
Handguns perform so marginally that people ask a lot of questions about this load and that bullet in what gun. This is important. You don't get the same questions about foster slugs because they are so overperforming on tissue nobody bothers to ask. People today argue about wither the shotgun is as relevant as it used to be with patrol carbines and rifles, nobody ever questions how good the things were at killing things. They keep their place in the modern lineup because of breaching, bean bags, and the fact they are so effective at close range you can't criticize them.
Help me out. Has there been an LEO shooting that made the news in like the last two decades that wasn't with a handgun?
I don't think anyone seriously questions the effectiveness of a shotgun! 
Back in the late seventies I was traveling in Europe and noticed many of the cops standing around here and there with squirt guns. Later, I commented to an older and much more knowledgeable friend that I was a bit uneasy around them since I figured a lot of collateral damage would ensue if one of them ever opened up in the airport with their MP5s, or whatever they were. I asked him in a polite way if they might not be better off with a shotgun? He seemed shocked and informed me that he had similar feelings about seeing American police officers with shotguns in their cruisers since he, and I gather more than a few Europeans, regard the shotgun in anti-personnel role as "excessively brutal." (His words.)
Since I have never been a policeman, I wouldn't know but I am concerned about over-penetration of slugs. My shotgun usually has #1 Buck in it.
Back in the late seventies I was traveling in Europe and noticed many of the cops standing around here and there with squirt guns. Later, I commented to an older and much more knowledgeable friend that I was a bit uneasy around them since I figured a lot of collateral damage would ensue if one of them ever opened up in the airport with their MP5s, or whatever they were. I asked him in a polite way if they might not be better off with a shotgun? He seemed shocked and informed me that he had similar feelings about seeing American police officers with shotguns in their cruisers since he, and I gather more than a few Europeans, regard the shotgun in anti-personnel role as "excessively brutal." (His words.)
Since I have never been a policeman, I wouldn't know but I am concerned about over-penetration of slugs. My shotgun usually has #1 Buck in it.
A shotgun loaded with slugs is my first choice if we are talking about 50 yds or closer. I served warrants for years, a Benelli M1 super 90 stoked with 1 oz slugs was my primary when I went through the door. I have seen first hand what the 1 oz slug will do, and they are very effective. Still keep a Benelli handy, and it is loaded with slugs.
THEmodelof1989
Member
I've seen shotgun slugs take bad guys completely off their feet more than once.
I've seen .50 caliber attitude adjusters fired from a mod duece also take men off their feet more than once.
Being completely honest, the aftermath of getting hit with a .50 cal in the middle of the chest, looks almost identical to a getting hit with a 12 gauge slug to the middle of the chest; while not an absolute guarentee, both are highly likely to immediately and completely incapacitate a bad guy.
So yea, I do find 12 gauge slugs effective for the job.
I've seen .50 caliber attitude adjusters fired from a mod duece also take men off their feet more than once.
Being completely honest, the aftermath of getting hit with a .50 cal in the middle of the chest, looks almost identical to a getting hit with a 12 gauge slug to the middle of the chest; while not an absolute guarentee, both are highly likely to immediately and completely incapacitate a bad guy.
So yea, I do find 12 gauge slugs effective for the job.
I always kept a box of 5 in my police unit to put down injured cows or horses at accident scenes. You can do it with a 357 revolver if the animals are lying still, but you can end suffering certainly and swiftly with a 12 gauge slug no matter what.
Dunno about the news, but Lt. Gary Walsmith killed a guy on his front porch in T or C, New Mexico with a shotgun (it was just in time to avoid an officer getting shot by the decedent).
My favorite one....
VIDEO: San Diego Cop Delivers Shotgun Blast To Face, Rescues Hostage - Blue Lives Matter
Game Over
fiasconva
US Veteran
Evan Marshall writes that he carried a 12 ga loaded with slugs for years when he was a cop in Detroit. He said it was an amazing car stopper that disabled the engine very quickly.
okiegtrider
Member
This OIS was with a shotgun. Not because the article says so, but I have talked with Sheriff Floyd about this shooting. The bad guy took one slug through the chest, it was over very quickly.
BTW, Sheriff Floyd is one of those exceptionally good guys who reminds us of the best things in us that made us become cops in the first place.
Sheriff Floyd shooter in Fairland fatality - News - The Miami News-Record - Miami, OK
Doug M.
Member
My academy taught that the slug was the default round in a shotgun (back when rifles were less common), and that buck was a special purpose/limited role round. I am not a fan of less than lethal (the correct term) in shotguns (or much of anything else) as they have relied upon circumstances in which they were not appropriate. Such projectiles are of very limited value and should be heavily restricted. The most prominent of those of which I am aware in the Van Nuys (LAPD) incident of about a year ago. Command officers should have been fired for it.
The versatility of the shotgun, especially in areas in which there dangerous predators other than the allegedly human ones, can be of value, and the general rule is that a squad car should have both a shotgun and a patrol rifle (AR). I have used both and comfortable with either for serious purposes, but admit as I get older I find the AR to be a much more user friendly platform. What I have seen too often is agencies buying non-tier 1 AR platforms because of ignorance, or prohibiting lights or RDS.
The versatility of the shotgun, especially in areas in which there dangerous predators other than the allegedly human ones, can be of value, and the general rule is that a squad car should have both a shotgun and a patrol rifle (AR). I have used both and comfortable with either for serious purposes, but admit as I get older I find the AR to be a much more user friendly platform. What I have seen too often is agencies buying non-tier 1 AR platforms because of ignorance, or prohibiting lights or RDS.
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mscampbell2734
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Slugs are superior to small caliber rifle rounds when engaging suspects in cars.
LAPD's SIS teaches a special class to other law enforcement agencies on taking down armed suspects in cars based on their 35 years of real world experience.
LAPD's SIS teaches a special class to other law enforcement agencies on taking down armed suspects in cars based on their 35 years of real world experience.
daddio202
Member
My first deer with a gun at age 14 (my first deer ever was had with a bow at 13) a slug was shot from a 20 gauge from about 100 yards and dropped
her instantly. So I can imagine a 12 gauge slug on a 2 legged creature would be most effective! May penetrate a bit too well in close quarters with possible innocent people close by though.
her instantly. So I can imagine a 12 gauge slug on a 2 legged creature would be most effective! May penetrate a bit too well in close quarters with possible innocent people close by though.
