LEOSA: Another year, another qual

[blues7]

JWM im still confused about carrying in a national park. It was explained to me if you have a carry permit issued by the state that the park is located in then you can. But LEOSA carry is not really a issued permit by a state its a condition of having your retired id card and a qualification card. The qualification card is issued by the state and here in pennsylvania but i dont want to be the test case lol

I haven't researched this in depth but my understanding is that if you have a state license for the specific state, or one from a state with reciprocity with the state the N.P. is located within, then you're good to go, even if LEOSA doesn't specifically cover it.

So, by way of example, if I were in a N.P. out west that honored the NC license for reciprocity, then I could carry in the park regardless of the LEOSA stance.

I would research it further before taking any action and I have seen the topic addressed on sites online in the past.

 

[blues7]

To flesh out my answer above a bit further, this quote from the National Park Service:

Firearms in National Parks
Possession of Firearms in National Park Units
In areas administered by the National Park Service, an individual can possess a firearm if that individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm and if the possession of the firearm complies with the laws of the state where the park area is located. 54 U.S.C. 104906.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable Federal, state and local firearms laws and regulations, including laws authorizing or prohibiting concealed carry, before entering a national park. Some parks are located in more than one state or locality which means that the applicable laws may change depending upon where you are located within a park area.

If a park is located in a jurisdiction where the applicable state and local laws grant reciprocity to non-resident firearm owners, then consistent with the applicable law, the park will equally recognize the reciprocity. For information on state and local laws, please contact the state and locality where the park is located.

Firearms in National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[les.b]

Congratulations on recertifying for another year, blues7!!! Just checked my card, and I'm still good until October. Also checked my CC license, and it's good until 2021. For the modest cost, the concealed carry license is worth it. Ours is good in something like 39 states. And I fret over my LEOSA recent every year, sometimes there are scheduling delays, which might mean I'm without LEOSA for a short time, but am still covered by the CCL. Plus, as you point out, there are grey areas in LEOSA such as the National Parks thing, in which the complimentary coverage is reassuring.

Best Regards, Les

 

[blues7]

Thank you, brother.

 

[Bat Guano]

My old agency has no interest in LEOSA; don't know about the locals. But my Wyoming CCW covers any state I'm ever liable to find myself in anyway. Wyoming also has "constitutional CCW carry" within the state. The CCW is honored in 35 other states, the vast majority "blue" (free) states.

 

[luangtom]

My old agency has no interest in LEOSA; don't know about the locals. But my Wyoming CCW covers any state I'm ever liable to find myself in anyway. Wyoming also has "constitutional CCW carry" within the state. The CCW is honored in 35 other states, the vast majority "blue" (free) states.

Huh? Red states seem to be more likely to be gun-friendly. IL, NY, NJ and CA come to mind as Blue.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Gundalow]

Just curious, can anyone cite a case in which a retired LE Officer, issued an identification card from his former agency as meeting requirements for LEOSA, has ever been prosecuted, or arrested, for not meeting all of the LEOSA technical requirements such as annual qualification in the state of residency or having proof of that qualification in his or her possession when carrying pursuant to LEOSA?

For the 10 or so years NHSP issued letters certifying completion of annual firearms qualification. I did not carry that letter with me. My reasoning, perhaps faulty, is that my qualification is a matter of record, which I could easily produce if necessary. The critical document is your LEOSA certification from a law enforcement agency. I have trouble believing a fellow law enforcement officer, or prosecutor would effect an arrest and pursue s criminal prosecution solely because a former law enforcement officer did not have in his/ her possession, the document certifying annual qualification.

 

[blues7]

^^^Gundalow, I hope you never have to travel through NJ. (And NYC for that matter.)

Your faith in your fellow man may not survive the trip. (I'm sorry to say.)

There are more than a few LEOs willing to do their brethren dirt.

 

[sigp220.45]

I am also an orphaned fed, but my SO takes care of us. 20 rounds, 40 bucks, and I'm worry free from sea to shining sea for another year. Thank you, George W!

 

[Muss Muggins]

St. Louis County PD does ours for free at the same quals they do for their retirees. Fifty rounds, beer and wings after with some fine folks, and I'm good to go . . .

I am also an orphaned fed, but my SO takes care of us. 20 rounds, 40 bucks, and I'm worry free from sea to shining sea for another year. Thank you, George W!

 

[Marshal Tom]

You know what, this whole process is BS. It should be that all retired federal and local LE should be required to pass a standard test administered by the local Sheriff Dept. and that that Qual makes them qualified to carry in any state without question. I am embarrassed to think that out federal agencies do not stand behind those that served in Federal Agencies. I feel that all LE who are willing to carry after retirement so that they may be able to prevent some situation is a wonderful thing. I really do not think that many would walk away and not act if called upon to do so.Some of the quals are frankly BS. I think that we should all be proficient, meaning that the qual should not be the bare minimum to make sure that we can pass it when maybe we should not. for those that get to the age that they can no longer pass the required qual or due to medical conditions etc, then choose not to qualify any longer. Having trained and qualified ex-LE out there who could potentially act when using common sense whether to do so or not, depending on the circumstances just makes sense.

 

[Gundalow]

^^^Gundalow, I hope you never have to travel through NJ. (And NYC for that matter.)

Your faith in your fellow man may not survive the trip. (I'm sorry to say.)

There are more than a few LEOs willing to do their brethren dirt.

Appreciate your thoughts blues7. Due to requalify with my local department later this month. I think I'll type up a brief statement that I qualified on (date), and have the firearms officer sign it and keep it with my LEOSA document. The LEOSA has been in effect for about 15 years, and the only legal cases that I am aware of involve whether or not an individual qualifies for LEOSA authority and if agencies are required to issue LEOSA identification cards.

Hopefully if there is an arrest for a technical violation of the LEOSA (such as failure to have firearms qualification certification on your person, or going beyond the 12 months re-qualification time frame), it will be reported by a member of this forum. (Due to my local department's scheduling issues, I have occasionally gone a week or two, up to a month, past my annual due date for re-qualification.)

Thus far, it appears that if you are in compliance with federal firearms laws, and have your LEOSA credential and current firearms qualification certification, jurisdictions such as NYC, NJ and Washington DC risk civil liability if they arrest you for carrying a gun or ammunition that does not conform with their local statutes.

 

[Aegis]

The only cases I am aware of where there was an arrest involved Coast Guard. In both cases the LE agencies did not think LEOSA applied. In both cases LEOSA was determined to be valid. One of the cases was in Burbank,Ca The city had to pay 40K and train the officers on LEOSA.

 

[The Big D]

LEOSA is clear re the time frame.

A few years ago my certification expired due to a scheduling issue. I DID NOT CARRY A GUN UNTIL I QUALIFIED ANEW..

LEOSA certification cards issued by the Maryland Police Training Commission include the expiration date and weapon type. You must carry that card and former agency credentials.

I would not consider for a moment ignoring those 'facts.'

Be safe.

Appreciate your thoughts blues7. Due to requalify with my local department later this month. I think I'll type up a brief statement that I qualified on (date), and have the firearms officer sign it and keep it with my LEOSA document. The LEOSA has been in effect for about 15 years, and the only legal cases that I am aware of involve whether or not an individual qualifies for LEOSA authority and if agencies are required to issue LEOSA identification cards.

Hopefully if there is an arrest for a technical violation of the LEOSA (such as failure to have firearms qualification certification on your person, or going beyond the 12 months re-qualification time frame), it will be reported by a member of this forum. (Due to my local department's scheduling issues, I have occasionally gone a week or two, up to a month, past my annual due date for re-qualification.)

Thus far, it appears that if you are in compliance with federal firearms laws, and have your LEOSA credential and current firearms qualification certification, jurisdictions such as NYC, NJ and Washington DC risk civil liability if they arrest you for carrying a gun or ammunition that does not conform with their local statutes.

 

[Gundalow]

A few years ago my certification expired due to a scheduling issue. I DID NOT CARRY A GUN UNTIL I QUALIFIED ANEW..

LEOSA certification cards issued by the Maryland Police Training Commission include the expiration date and weapon type. You must carry that card and former agency credentials.

I would not consider for a moment ignoring those 'facts.'

Be safe.

Appreciate your thoughts Big D

 

[Gundalow]

Gundalow i retired from a NJ agency and i worry about carrying there, believe me your retired id and qualification card better have every i dotted and t crossed. NJ is so bad the AG issued his own ruling that leosa only applies to out of state retirees not retirees living in NJ. Being a test case is costly.

Spg007 - Thanks for your insight and update on my home state, which I happily escaped in 1985. All my "I"s will be dotted if I ever again pass through the Garden State.

Despite his ruling, the NJ AG lacks the authority to deny NJ residents who would otherwise qualify for LEOSA status, the ability to exercise their LEOSA rights as provided for by federal statute. Imagine for a moment he issued a ruling stating that NJ residents were not entitled to protection under federal anti discrimination statutes; that the only protections available to them would be those as established by the state of NJ.

If defending yourself against such reckless conduct on the part of the NJ AG was not so incredibly expensive, his actions would be laughable.

This will likely be resolved in court, hopefully sooner rather than later. However it is a fine example of how tyrants achieve positions of power, which should be of concern to all of us.

 

[Old Corp]

Recently had to travel North through NJ on a drive to visit wife's family in upstate NY.
Thankfully, just a few days later we were Southbound through and out of NJ.
Of course, I was carrying, but not a gun listed on my LEOSA card - it was actually my last duty weapon, a S&W M4566, full of old issue ammo, 230 gr Gold Dot JHP's.
It did cross my mind how all that would go if we had an interaction with any of NJ's Finest. But we did not.

My wife just smirks when I opine that if Hell has a highway, it's the New Jersey Turnpike.

 

[krsmith58]

A BIG thank you for all who have served

 

[Gundalow]

.........My wife just smirks when I opine that if Hell has a highway, it's the New Jersey Turnpike.

Amen, particularly on the Wednesday afternoon/evening before Thanksgiving.

 

[blues7]

Recently had to travel North through NJ on a drive to visit wife's family in upstate NY.
Thankfully, just a few days later we were Southbound through and out of NJ.
Of course, I was carrying, but not a gun listed on my LEOSA card - it was actually my last duty weapon, a S&W M4566, full of old issue ammo, 230 gr Gold Dot JHP's.
It did cross my mind how all that would go if we had an interaction with any of NJ's Finest. But we did not.

My wife just smirks when I opine that if Hell has a highway, it's the New Jersey Turnpike.

I reserve carry of "other" firearms to NC or, if need be, states with reciprocity with my NC license.

On road trips where LEOSA applies, I carry one of the two firearms I use for LEOSA qualification. One, the Glock 26, specifically because the 10 round OEM magazines meet the limitations of some states which restrict capacity.

It's not a perfect system and needs improvement...but it's a heck of a lot better than the alternative, and for that I'm grateful.