Lever action assault rifles

I can see how a lever scout gun could use a box magazine, like the Browning 1895, to accommodate pointy bullets which are dangerous in a tube magazine. That's unnecessary for pistol bullets and traditional round-nosed hunting rounds. The beauty of lever guns, in my opinion, is their slim profile, light weight, and classical operation. I find them addicting.

A perforated, Picatinny forearm is ugly and irrelevant.
 
Last night I read a "report" on MSN concerning the apprehension of a malefactor. He was armed with a break open single shot firearm that appeared to have a picatinny rail on top with a scope/red dot mounted. This was reported to be an "an assault rifle" and 60 rounds of ammo.
Per media, any long gun that is used in the commission of a crime is automatically an "assault rifle". They are no longer concerned with any sort of accuracy in reporting.
 
One: strike the phrase "assault rifle" from your vocabulary. The only time it is an accurate reference is if it meets the mid-60s Army definition and one needs to cite to that if using the term appropriately. 2) Quit using the term "tacticool" You are denigrating a collection of hard use folks, many of whom were trained in LE or service during GWOT about using a rifle to fight, which along with hunting is the primary purpose of a firearm. I admit the 45-70 critter shown serves no purpose for me, but I am purposefully setting up my Marlin .357 somewhat like that as I NEED the RDS and ability to mount a good 1000 lumen light. It is not a coincidence that most of my training was with an AR platform and that function drives the training and equipment. The blue steel/wood cosmetic fetish has roughly the social utility of an "adult" website.

Remember the debacle with Jim Zumbo? His denigration of AR platforms was so far into ignorant it displayed a need for a guardian. As far as I know, it ruined his career, and deservedly so. The hard use fora to which I belonged blew up with outrage, and understandably so. It lead to use of the word "Fudd" for his type of moronic thinking. Words matter. It's like the silliness of referring to blatant discrimination as "racial profiling", which is simply horrible use of the English language,

Blatant differentiations between us are dumb, and only give ammo to the terrorists who want to disarm us. Please educate yourself. Watch Ermey's intro to Full Metal Jacket and apply his warning to Private Joker to your own conduct.
 
....Correct me if I'm wrong - but ALL true ASSAULT RIFLES ARE SEMI-AUTO at least - with HI-CAP MAGS.
I don't believe dressing up a Lever Action with modern accessories makes it anything but a LEVER ACTION RIFLE.
I liked my SAR-1 so well, I recently bought a 7.62X54R Romanian PSL Marksman Rifle. really no comparison with Lever Actions. SO SATISFIED - I Suggest, & Recommend Lever Action Fans try out a more efficient route.

From the media perspective, sure.

From a military, definitional perspective, no. An assault rifle is by design capable of fully automatic fire. Most can also be fired semi-auto, but will still have a selector switch (or be able to have a selector switch installed) to allow full auto fire.

Tactically speaking that larger volume of full auto fire was used for suppression of the defense in an assault (as well as for final protective fire in defense). But, regardless of why the Germans named it what they did and how it is translated, militarily speaking its the ability to fire full auto in the assault that results in the name and the definition.
 
...2) Quit using the term "tacticool" You are denigrating a collection of hard use folks, many of whom were trained in LE or service during GWOT about using a rifle to fight, which along with hunting is the primary purpose of a firearm. I admit the 45-70 critter shown serves no purpose for me, but I am purposefully setting up my Marlin .357 somewhat like that as I NEED the RDS and ability to mount a good 1000 lumen light. It is not a coincidence that most of my training was with an AR platform and that function drives the training and equipment. The blue steel/wood cosmetic fetish has roughly the social utility of an "adult" website.
...

We'll have to disagree with how "tacticool" is used.

We agree that a modular system is designed so that you can equip a rifle or carbine specifically for the mission at hand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

"Tacticool" as opposed to "tactical" refers to the guy who buys an AR-15 or similar rail equipped rifle or carbine and then proceeds to tart it up with all kinds of accessories, and keeps them all on the rifle all of the time, regardless of the actual, intended or projected use.

This is extreme, but it takes far less than this to qualify as tacticool.

The-Most-Tactical-AR15-EVER.jpg

In fact, I'll take the position that the tacticool guys are the ones denigrating the working folks who actually understand the modular concept.

-----

Now, I can agree there might be situations where you need both a red dot sight and a light on a lever action.

A RDS alone can be managed easily with minimum impact on the weight and handling of the rifle with something like the Turnbull rear sight mount.

Also adding a light might imply a need for a quad rail type solution, and yet Skinner, Hill People, and others make a short pic rail that mounts on the magazine tube that will allow mounting a light.

FullSizeRender_ae1c6ffd-62d6-48f7-9f05-9f41703ab056.jpg


Solutions like that have the advantage of good PR in not making a traditional cowboy style lever action look like a military weapon, and they have minimal impact on the weight, balance and snag resistance of the rifle. It's a win-win. It just doesn't look "tacticool". ;)

The argument often is "but I live in a jurisdiction where assault rifles are banned!!". That always prompts me to ask why they got banned there in the first place and how they think it will go down when lever guns start looking just like the semi auto assault rifles that got banned. It won't end well, so its really short sighted to poke that bear.
 
Last edited:

For a mere grand, 'cough', you can enjoy limited, 2.5X, dbl tappin'. .
Then for less than 1200 simoleons you can outfit two of these:
Now, for less than 1/4 the price you can enjoy all the ridiculousness your little ole pea pickin' heart desires. Although the dbl holster, ala Steve McQueen Mare's leg in, 'Wanted Dead or Alive" rig would probably set you back a mite. For a dbl backup, and also around a grand, the ultimate to fit in each of your boots:

https://www.bondarms.com/Rowdy-XL-Flag-Package-New-P8620.aspx

Count 'em up. nineteen rnds w/o reloading of apocalyptic Mad Max weekend warrior delight. Now if I can only lay me mitts on a modified 1973 Ford Falcon XB GT Coupe, featuring a supercharged V8 engine truly I will be a fuel injected suicide machine. Ask the Toecutter...
 
This is as far as I have gone. The red dot is due to most problems this answers are after dark, and I am OLD.. Rossi .44 Mag.jpg
 
Correct me if I'm wrong - but ALL true ASSAULT RIFLES ARE SEMI-AUTO at least - with HI-CAP MAGS.
A true "assault rifle" has to be semi and full auto capable. You are correct in saying "at least", but it is a distinction that would be lost on most of the public, and definitely with the anti-gunners.

I have squashed a few of the uninformed by describing my ARs and AKs as "semi-automatic rifles that look like assault rifles. As they have no full auto capability, they are not assault rifles." People can look unhappy when presented with these facts, though.;)
 
How quickly we forget.







They weren't assault rifles then, and they still are not now. And those of us who knew better pointed that out at the time.

But it's a case of the gun rag and the gun industries creating a media monster that came back to bite us in 1994.
 
It's a simple set of issues that people like to make complex. I deal in the world as it is, not as I'd like it to be and that has a big effect on my views of misguided efforts like "lever action assault rifles".

1) Let's be honest, this is all about marketing and trying to sell people more guns. there's nothing wrong with that per se, except when it's done in a way where the desire to maximize short term profits can cause long term problems. (Ask Sig how much they "saved" denying their P320 had a problem 6-7 years ago when it would have been an affordable fix for them. They should have talked to Remington about the economics of not fixing the Rem 700 trigger.)

In the case of "assault" anything, it a marketing effort that just pokes the bear by creating a public image that never goes over well with the non gun crowd. Exercise of 2A rights should never be viewed as an endeavor where "triggering" a group of people is seen as a plus. That never works out well and it works less well as gun ownership percentages decline.

Bill Ruger took a lot of heat for his willingness to agree to not sell 30 round magazines directly to the public, but he understood the politics involved and he kept the wood stocked Mini 14 and its 20 round magazines off proposed ban lists for decades, even though it has a higher cyclic rate than the AR-15, can be converted to a binary trigger with just an office staple, and was used in its proportionate share of mass shootings.

650d0dca-4af2-4e22-9e61-b4c563da3dc5.jpg


When it comes to guns and lethality, the anti gun crowd is really clueless. They won't realize that a tarted up "lever action assault rifle" is heavier, bulkier, more snag prone and overall slower and less effective than a traditional wood and blued steel lever gun chambered in the same cartridge, with the same magazine length.

They will however see and hear the word "assault", along with all of the evil features they associate with military weapons and immediately decide it must be banned. Unfortunately, legislators, attorneys, and attorneys in bureaucratic reg writing and enforcement roles will see all lever action rifles as being the same, if not immediately, then down the road.

In short the whole lever action assault rifle thing is a marketing ploy posing a solution to a non existent problem that in the end will create a far bigger problem.

---

For what it's worth the customers for these lever action "assault" rifles, are also pretty clueless that they are taking what was by design a light weight, streamlined, extremely handy and well balanced carbine and turning it into a clunky over weight piece of tacticool garbage.

45-70 is also an incredibly poor choice for a tactical carbine. If you have one light enough to be effective it will kick like a mule. Even then you are giving up half the magazine capacity for a level of power you don't need while gaining nothing in armor penetration.

A 20" Model 92 in .357 Mag will launch a 158 gr JSP at 1820 FPS and give it an accurate and effective range out past 100 yards, it won't beat you to death, and it'll give you 11 rounds in the magazine. And it's light, handy, streamlined and very snag resistant.

7f1af433-cb4f-4bce-b5c4-0fc46747e1f5.jpg

If a tang or receiver type aperture sight wont work for you, put a small red dot on the barrel. no rail required.

c23e12d5-5b41-4404-a829-73acb812245a.jpg


If you want more velocity, and a longer effective range the .30-30 is still a good choice, with an effective range out to 230 yards no more than +/- 5" from point of aim.

68fd19a5-f40e-4535-bcbf-17d2af38018f.jpg


That said, .308 would be ideal and the .307 Win was a rimmed variant of the .308 made for tubular magazine lever gun purposes. It would be great to see that brought back.
Doubtful, anyone remember the 308 Marlin Express?
 
Surprisingly, up here in officially gun-shy Canada, we are allowed to own this- a Taylor & Co. .357 with a 12" barrel (!)
Only 6+1 rounds, but as ICS Yoda said, "if you're in front of it counting is the last thing you'll want to be doing."
IMG_6606.jpg

Oddly, I don't think this feeds .38 Spec. well or I could probably get a couple more +P+ rounds in. But up here we don't have much to defend ourselves against anyway (so far...)
 
Surprisingly, up here in officially gun-shy Canada, we are allowed to own this- a Taylor & Co. .357 with a 12" barrel (!)
Only 6+1 rounds, but as ICS Yoda said, "if you're in front of it counting is the last thing you'll want to be doing."
View attachment 783198

Oddly, I don't think this feeds .38 Spec. well or I could probably get a couple more +P+ rounds in. But up here we don't have much to defend ourselves against anyway (so far...)
When the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed the justification was to ban firearms that were being used by road gangs of the time like Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, Pretty Boy Floyd, etc. Even then they recognized that that were after banning firearms like Clyde's sawed off Colt Monitor and that things like a 12" or 14" Model 92 Trapper carbine were not the threats they were targeting and exempted them.

But only the ones that were already in use, they still banned new short barrel rifles regardless of their operating system.

And yet they decided things like the Mares Leg, Shockwave, and a whole host of braced pistols were legal. In the US there's a bad habit of using a very narrow read of the statute and reg when making interpretations and in the process totally losing the plot.
 
Bobby Jones drove a 600 yard par 5 green in two shots with clubs made out of sticks and pieces of wood.
45-70 as a tactical cartridge. Nope not 30-06. Nope not .308 NATO. I like the 1200 yard effective range of the 6.5 Creedmore. Beats all of those others and weighs only a fraction of their weight. 65k pressure and 2700 FPS, 140 grain bullets.
Almost 1/4 mile effective range.
I prefer Strategic advantages.
"Tactical" is beaten by Strategic every time.
We learned the value of the 30-06 when it faced the 8MM Mauser.
The value of the 7 MM Mauser when it faced .303 British.
Just haul around 100 rounds of 45-70 and then compare it to 6.5 Creedmore.
One may be Tactical, but the other makes tactical obsolete.
 
...In the US there's a bad habit of using a very narrow read of the statute and reg when making interpretations and in the process totally losing the plot.
"Totally losing the plot" has been the official mantra up here since the introdution of Bill C-68 in the mid-90s.
(The actual plot being "to disarm Canadians", as then Min. of Foreign Affairs , Lloyd Axworthy stated in 1998.)
'Nuf said; I can feel my BP rising as I type this.
 
While it doesn't look as bad or impractical as something like a Mossberg Shockwave, there's a feature-length article on the hideous S&W 1854 "Stealth Hunter" lever-action in the current issue of RIFLE magazine if anyone is interested. I didn't bother reading it.
 
Back
Top